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The Sheath/Holster Makers Forum This is the place to discuss all forms of sheath and holster making.

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  #1  
Old 05-20-2003, 06:21 PM
Brett Brett is offline
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Shades of Feebing's browns

Next problem I have is a choosing(guessing) the right shade/tone of the brown dye (Fiebing's Leather Dye, spirit-based).

Assuming that the name of the dye should reflect the color, I bought the three kinds of browns that appear to be useless for a my purposes

May anyone suggest what kinds of Fiebing's Leather Dye are:
1- the neutral dark brown ("just brown", like Burnt Umber)
2- any lighter shade of neutral brown to use under Hi-Liter or Antique Finish?

I already tried the Dark Brown (which appeared to be dark cherry-red), Russet (good enough, but with an unhealthy shade of a muddy yellow), and the Light Brown (more Orange than Brown).

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2003, 06:42 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Brett-
That is one of the bugaboos of any dye - getting the right shade. Unfortunately how the dye reacts with the leather itself can change the shade. Herman Oak for instance often turns out more red tinged than other leathers due to their tanning process. (just oiled it will/can have a pinkish tinge to it)

I normally use the medium brown and my favorite British tan. You can mix with denatured alcohol to lighten.

For dark brown try the chocolate. You can also mix various shades to get the color you want.

Sorry I don't have any easy fixes.


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  #3  
Old 05-21-2003, 07:44 AM
Brett Brett is offline
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Thank you, Chuck! Your info is very valuable.

I'll make no more mis-guesses and have less staff for collecting dust on the shelves
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2003, 09:00 AM
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Brett - what Chuck said, and here's another challenge which also requires test pieces. Try a light coat of Fiebings Golden Oak, an oil base stain, as a base coat. Then use whatever color you want over that. Despite all the tricks I've learned here and by experimentation, sometime leather will just be leather, varying in consistency throughout a single side. Deglazing helps, usually; strip testing helps, usually; but there''s always that one section that wants to react the way it will. I just accept it as the natural beauty of the leather.
A while ago Chuck mentioned using small amounts of olive oil as an additive to spirit based dyes, and that works well also,seems to aid in penetration and eveness.
MtMike


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  #5  
Old 05-23-2003, 07:35 AM
Brett Brett is offline
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Thank you, MtMike! Sorry for late reply. I'll try that.

Are the dyes I described show the really brown colors in your experience, or it is just my leather? I tried three different kinds/thicknesses of vegtan one, in scraps of course.

And another question about browns: what the Cordovan, Maroon and Mahogany dyes look like? In the catalog's colort chart they are similar to the Dark Brown.

Thanks again.
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  #6  
Old 05-23-2003, 08:07 AM
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Sorry, can't help with the maroons, cordovans, burgundies -- haven't tried them. The British Tan gives me a reddish-brown that I really like,and by cutting it with alcohol the red is also lessened. Cordovan polish as a top coat over the British Tan gives a very rich finish. Bad part is you won't have nice white thread anymore, if that's a look you want.
Another thing to consider -- you've read Chuck's comments about dying the insides or at least down inside as far as you can see -- unless you deglaze the ruff side, the dye will not apply evenly on many hides. I even go so far as to rough up the back side with light sand paper.
Mike


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  #7  
Old 05-23-2003, 07:22 PM
Brett Brett is offline
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Thanks again, MtMike! What is Cordovan polish (or any other polish) - a waterproof final finish? I know only TanKote, BagKote and read about Mountain Pitch Blend...
And (unrelated question) can be acrylics SuperSheen and Resolene considered as a waterproof final finish, or only as sealers for acrylics and require wear/waterproofing to be applied over them?

About finishing insides:
I worked only with the Black Pro-Oil dye, no problem with the even coat yet, if apply it, as Chuck suggested, close to the point of saturation, when leather can't accept any more.

I tried deglazing for this dye on the scraps, but didn't see a difference ( I am new to all of this, may be just can't see it).

Sanding the flesh side with sandpaper coarse than 600 grit only raises fibers (makes things worse) in my experience. What grit you are using?

Thanks for your time!
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  #8  
Old 05-23-2003, 09:55 PM
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Brett-- when I say cordovan I mean just plain old shoe polish. By the time I use it I've already finished the basic dye and sealing. The polish just adds a slight tint, and a semi-glossy finish.
The trouble with not using a deglazer is that on the pieces where you need it, often you won't know it until the uneven splotchiness appears.
I only resort to sandpaper when I can see the hard glaze pressed into the fibers on the back..Not often, but it happens. And sand only one direction, or, yes, the fiber just pulls up as you said.
Mike


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  #9  
Old 05-24-2003, 08:15 AM
Brett Brett is offline
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Thank you very much, MtMike, for the information! I would never think about the shoe polish for this purpose.

I'll deglaze the leather in the future, seems it is a root of the problem with the colors. Is it possible to use a rubbing alcohol for this?

I also tried to rub the Leather Balm with Atom Wax into brown-dyed flesh side with the rag (in both directions). As you said, the fibers raised. And Leather Balm "freezed" between them as the visible layer, giving toxic-looking shade of yellow. No amount of burnishing helped.

Now I'll know how to avoid this. Thanks!
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  #10  
Old 05-24-2003, 08:33 AM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Brett-
Rubbing alcohol USUALLY works but acetone or denatured works better. I get denatured at places like Walmart of any paint sore. And you are right - deglazing is VERY important and like Mike said it's a real pain when you don't first and then Uh OH!

Leather Balm will sometimes do this on the flesh side. Try wiping it down again with a fresh coat and keep rubbing it in while still wet. If it stays funny looking wipe down with alcohol and reapply a coat of dye. Remember to buff after the dye dries with a clean cloth to remove the powder coat before applying any finish. Then use Bag Kote/Tan Kote instead of Leather Balm and rubit in well while still wet. I'm experimenting with a non-leather product for seal coating the inside and so far it looks good but I won't elaborate until I get some user feed back. (it's nice having customers who don't mind being guinea pigs!)

Super Shene/Resolene are good final coats inside and out (I use the Leather Balm first on the inside and then rub well to smooth the fibers, it's not as water resistant (no finish is waterproof in my experience - nature of the beast) as Super Shene/Resolene so I recommend to put a coat or two over the Leather Balm)


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  #11  
Old 05-24-2003, 06:07 PM
Brett Brett is offline
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Thank you very much, Chuck! I saw only Methyl Alcohol in stores, but I have an acetone and it works. Now the leather dries anter repainting.

And I burnished Tan Kote when it dried - have to try rub it when still wet.

What do you think, is Bag Kote more or less water-resistant? I didn't find much information about it on the manufacturer's website, only history.

And will be Super Shene / Resolene enough wear-resistant for a belt loop?

Are the Leather Balm w/Atom Wax and Lexol Conditioner made for the same purpose, or they should be used in the different situations?

Sorry for bombing by questions again,
Thank you for your time!
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2003, 11:07 AM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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No problemo!

1) Bag Kote water resistance is about the same. Bag Kote is a more satin finish than Tan Kote. BTW I've been using one of those pump sray bottles to apply Bag Kote with and it works great! Just follow the directions for mixing with water. I've also been using a couple for dye and they work godd for that too. Just dampne the leather as if you were going to daub it on and spray away.

2)I don't use Super shene or Resolene as a top coat on my stuff as it is too shiny so I can't answer that one. Give Sandy a personal as he uses it and should be able to answer it (although that should be answer enough come to think of it "D)

3) Lexol vis-a-vis Leather Balm - I've never really thought about them that way? But I suppose they are/can be used in pretty much the same way, although Leather Balm has the addition of the wax and therefore leaves a gloss type finish. Lexol is what I recommend to my customers to use as a general conditioner.


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Wild Rose Trading Co - Handcrafted Knife Sheaths



The beautiful sheaths created for storing the knife elevate the knife one step higher. It celebrates the knife it houses.

Last edited by Chuck Burrows; 05-25-2003 at 11:09 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2003, 08:05 AM
Brett Brett is offline
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Thank you, Chuck!
My bottle of Bag Kote and manufacturer's and seller's websites don't even mention a possibility of mixing it with water... Can you give some general directions?

Somewhere on the web I found that it is possible to dilute slightly Tan Kote with water, when it bocomes thick and stops soaking into the grain. Tried, had a light spots on the black - but who knows, was it lack of deglazing or it was diluting?

Thanks again!
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  #14  
Old 05-29-2003, 08:23 AM
Brett Brett is offline
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Sorry for the repeated question, answer was already done in http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread....threadid=14027
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