welding problem

[SVanderkolff]

I am attempting to use my little hobby stick welder to attach a threaded rod to the tang of a sword that I made a while ago. The problem I keep running in to is that the threaded rod burns right through. In other words as I try to weld the rod to the tang the threaded rod melts. Is there a certain type of threaded rod I should be using or a minimum thickness. The rod I am using is 1/4 inch 20 hardware store basic threaded rod.
Thanks Again for your patience and help
Steve

[Don Cowles]

Steve, although I am by no means an experience welder, I think you need to silver braze that joint.

[SVanderkolff]

Don
What does "silver braze" mean? I have absolutely no experience in using a welder so even the basics are a complete mystery to me.
Thanks
Steve

[cactusforge]

Steve, I'm not Don but here goes. Silver brazing is a brass rod with 45% silver that is used in refrigeration and installing carbide cutters on tool bits and is truly good stuff, you can put two pieces of brass together with it and never find the joint.
It flows at 1150 deg. K&G sells it as ESE flow solder.
When using it on soldering a collar on to a pommel with a good fit don't use much, 1 drop will do the bond is very strong. When putting a piece of all thread on a tang use it like a brazing rod, it will take a little more.
Also it needs a flux that is a white paste and unique to it.
When buying it check the price, I have found that at some welding stores the price fluctuates with the silver market.
Gib

[Geno]

Hello Steve,
There are some tricks to it.
I TIG weld them on,for better control and fill.
You can stick weld them, but go buy the tiny electrodes and turn down your machine.6013 or 7018 rods.
Keep the heat on the thick part and kinda pull the metal towards the threaded stock, then flick back to the thick stuff before it all falls out.

Silver braze with oxy/acet and high temp silver solder works too.
You can also melt in brass for the joint instead of silver solder.

Some swords have a thick cross section that can be drilled and tapped inside, then the stock screws up inside for the tang.

Let us know what works,OK?:cool:

[fitzo]

If you don't have a torch, Steve, I have found that for small applications like this those little $10-29 butane jobs one can find on e-bay or at Home Depot do quite well, and are a great little investment for the shop. They always remind me of the light the doctors stick in yer ear. Pinpoint flame, and it doesn't heat so fast as to overheat the area you are trying to braze too fast, like even a small tip will do on a regular torch. A great alternative to an expensive Smith Little Torch, which is also way cool.

Another approach to the allthreaded tang end that I like is to drill a quarter inch hole about 1/4" from the end of the tang, slot it out so there is sort of a "keyhole". Then, grind the end of brass allthread to slide into that keyhole from the side, then peen the brass to fit tight. It makes a great mechanical joint, and with an additional drop of solder, it becomes a "forever" joint. Takes a little longer, but it's one of those little tricks that put a grin on one's face.

[Jamey Saunders]

Sounds like you've got your amperage turned up WAAAAAY too high. You may also be using too big a rod. For that job, you'll probably want a 3/32" rod at low amps. I've done it, so I know it can be done. Usually, though, burn-through means the amperage is much too high. My dad always taught me to use as little amperage as I needed to, and welding a 1/4" rod to a piece of steel doesn't need much. You'd turn up the amperage if you needed heavy penetration for welding thick plates.

[SVanderkolff]

This is a little hobby welder and I don't think there is any way to control the amperage. I am using 1/16" rods which is the smallest I could find.
Thanks
Steve

[caveman]

the threaded rods you are buying from the hardware store are probably plated or galvanized to resist corrosion......zinc will not weld, but will melt away as you indicated....

try cutting the threaded part from a non-plated bolt & I'm sure you will be able to stitch it right on there.....

[BrianT]

You may have too large of a gap between the electrode (welding rod) and the work. You should have about 1/16" gap for 1/16" rod when welding. 1/16" rod may be too small for the amprage that you are running. Somewhere on the welder or in the owners manual shoud be specs as to what amperage the unit runs at. This info would be helpful. For example, if the unit runs at 100 amps, 1/16 rod is too small and therefore the arc is too hot.

Most threaded rod is grade 2. You might get a grade 5 bolt (3 slash marks on the head signifies grade 5) and cut to length. A grade 5 bolt wont melt away as easily. Practice welding on some plate to get control of your arc.

Brian

[simmonsk]

Hi,
It really helps when welding mild to high carbon to preheat the high carbon edge to 350 - 400 degrees and then hit it with the welder being careful to keep most of the heat on the high carbon.
Then I like to stress relieve by lightly hammering it as it cools.
Never had a bike frame or aircraft weld come apart doing it this way. And all my handles are still accounted for. .
Enjoy, you have a lot of good choices listed...Ken

[DiamondG Knives]

This may not be the church aproved way, but before I had a welder, I would grind the tang round, thread it, and use a long threaded collar (lowes has them) then screw in the all thread into it. once i made sure everything would fit right, Id take it apart, and coat the joint with JB Weld then reassemble. Let it set over night, then it shoud be a pretty solid piece. I never had one fail,

Mike.