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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:37 AM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
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Recess for pivot washers in folders - End mill?

Hi all

How I do the best recesses for pivot washers on folder knives?

Is it possible to use and end mill to make a flat bottom hole? If an end mill can't be used, what other tool can i use to drill these flat bottom holes.

I only have a small drill press.
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2017, 08:42 AM
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cnccutter cnccutter is offline
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I'm not sure why your recessing the washer? The whole idea of using one is to keep the blade centered and away from the scales. That way you don't get the scratchs on the side of the blade when opening and closing.

Now, if you want a flat bottom hole an end mill would work great if you have the material secured well because the end mill isn't self centering and will want to wonder.

They also make a step drill bit and a step end mill that have pilots on the ends to keep them centered in the main hole as you drill.
Erik

Last edited by cnccutter; 09-21-2017 at 08:46 AM.
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2017, 09:28 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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As Erik said..... washers are usually NOT recessed. Their main purpose is to create space between liners and the blade.

Bearings are recessed, either in the liners or the blade. This is best accomplished with with a piloted counter bore.
Using an end mill is a hit and miss affair....more often then not, an end mill will "walk" slightly, creating an oval instead of a round recess. Finding the correct size counterbore can be a challenge. I use the ones with interchangable pilots, and purchase them from MSC supply or from specialty sources..... in the past I have had such a difficult time finding what I needed, that I actually had some carbide counterbores made to my specifications...... but they were very expensive.


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Last edited by Ed Caffrey; 09-21-2017 at 02:48 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2017, 09:43 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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I agree if your just using washer like .02 or thiner you don't need to recess them at all.....I have been making bearing flipper folders recently and at that point you do need to recess the bearings partly if its a 1/16th thick bearing (.0625) I recess the pockets .045 so if you lay the bearing in the the balls sit just tall of the linner so the blade can ride on them....The easiest way I have found to do this (it will work IF you want to recess you washers) first you drill the pivot hole (I use a 3/16th pivot) then you get a COUNTER BORE a counter bore has a PILOT BIT that will slide in and out of it... its not a drill its simple a 3/16th (you want the pilot to match the pivot hole) the pilot slides into the counterbore then I put that in the mill (you can use a drill press IF you drill press is perfectly squared but I find the mill more accurate) so then I place a 123 block on the mill table and lay the liner on that so the pilot slides through the pivot hole and keeps everything centered...then you just slowly lower the counterbore down onto the liner it will create a perfect circle centered around the pivot with a flat bottom..you must get a counter bore that is the same size of the diameter of your washers or bearings or SLIGHTLY bigger will work best..I guess it could be done with a end mill but that creates the major problem of how to make sure it is dead centered around that pivot I don't think you will have much luck that way....by the way MSCDIRECT.COM has counter bores in all sizes however I get mine from TIconnector.com because I buy there bearings and they have a carbide counter bore to match....carbide last much longer but I don't know what material your using for the liners steel or titanium but you want at least a cobalt one...I got a couple HSS ones and going into titanium they dulled very very quickly
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2017, 09:44 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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HAHA ED your post wasn't there when I started to reply ....I guess you type faster than I do!!
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  #6  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:04 PM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
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Thanks guys, i will get some thin washers instead. I can get them i a wide variety of materials, nylon, fibre, steel, stainless steel, copper and brass. Which material is best suited for the task?

Do you lube up the pivot and washer before assembly?
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  #7  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:46 PM
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I use bronze or Stainless in my folders.

Erik
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2017, 01:52 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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I don't use washers much as I make bearing folders but Erik just said what everyone always told me bronze are the best....bronze wasn't on the list you mentioned if you cant find them try and look for bronze sheets or shims in a thickness you could use like .02 you will get just a thin sheet but its not hard to cut through it with siccors and make your own washers with it.
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:38 PM
epicfail48 epicfail48 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmus Kristens View Post
Thanks guys, i will get some thin washers instead. I can get them i a wide variety of materials, nylon, fibre, steel, stainless steel, copper and brass. Which material is best suited for the task?

Do you lube up the pivot and washer before assembly?
Phosphor bronze is my personal favorite, I use it for pivots and washers in butterfly knives. Unbelievably smooth actions on those, even without lubrication. Course, any moving part should be properly lubricated. The grade I use is C51000 I believe, been a while since I bought it though. McMaster carries it in sheet stock if you want to cut your own washers, if not a lot of the knife supply places sell the washers pretty cheap.

Teflon washers would be my second choice, but its a distant second. Really, I think bronze is the way to go
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  #10  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:49 PM
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My personal choice is Bronze, in .010" thickness.


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  #11  
Old 09-22-2017, 01:07 AM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
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Originally Posted by epicfail48 View Post
... Unbelievably smooth actions on those, even without lubrication. Course, any moving part should be properly lubricated...
What kind of lube should be used to properly lubricate the pivot? Its a simple frictions folder.

I just found a source of affordable phosphor bronze in 0,02" thickness. I will be cutting some shims soon :-)

Thanks
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Old 09-22-2017, 02:15 AM
epicfail48 epicfail48 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rasmus Kristens View Post
What kind of lube should be used to properly lubricate the pivot? Its a simple frictions folder.

I just found a source of affordable phosphor bronze in 0,02" thickness. I will be cutting some shims soon :-)

Thanks
For a knife, dry film lubricants. You dont want anything wet, i.e oils and the like, those attract way too much dust and grime thatll eventually lock up the action. My personal favorite knife lube is WD-40 Specialist PTFE spray. Pretty cheap, drys to a thin film that doesnt gather crap and is buttery smooth.
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2017, 03:51 AM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
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Thanks Epic

Is it also suitable for coating ny high carbon knifeblades as corrosions protection, or is regular WD-40 better for this?
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2017, 05:53 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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for coating the blades get some ren. wax I work with a lot of stainless but I have carbon blades from a couple years ago when I started making knives that I coated with this stuff and they are still fine

this stuff
http://usaknifemaker.com/renaissance...z-can-262.html
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  #15  
Old 09-22-2017, 07:05 PM
epicfail48 epicfail48 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rasmus Kristens View Post
Thanks Epic

Is it also suitable for coating ny high carbon knifeblades as corrosions protection, or is regular WD-40 better for this?
Dunno, can't say ive ever tried using it for corrosion protection. I don't imagine itd work as well as an oil though. I've used Remoil and Ballistol both, both do a good job of corrosion protection. That said, so does 3-in-1, it really doesn't take much to keep the rust off. Wax can work well too, but the oils easier to apply
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