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  #46  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:45 PM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JE6245 View Post
Bill -- I just posted it up in a separate thread. I picked up a model 2 that I also want you to see. Interesting scrim on ivory. I'll get that one up in the next day or two.
Thanks Bud! Don't forget my Randall page also!
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  #47  
Old 06-09-2017, 03:47 PM
jeepster jeepster is offline
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Samg I want to give my opinion on the Bo Randall 37-38 Knife pictured above. When Bo started making knives as you know it was just a hobby. There were no stamps. Stamps came later in late 38 or 1939. And I don't have to tell you that either. I don't remember exactly which year. But more important than that is that when Bo made his early knives there were no copy cats. He had no competition. He had a style and to me without a doubt the knife shown above was made by Bo. I may lose but I would be willing to bet the farm on it. I understand that my feelings don't count for provenance but I would imagine that Chris has definitely shown that knife to Gary. If it were mine I couldn't get to Orlando fast enough. So I feel pretty confident that Gary has seen it. Gary may have his reasons for not giving his approval to the knife but I would again bet that he thinks his dad made it. I could also understand why Gary might not give his approval on the knife. I just wanted to share with you my observation on the knife. I know Ron has a different opinion of the knife and I have the utmost respect for Ron but I disagree with him on this.
Also your new old fighter is outstanding! You have a beauty there.
Ronnie
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  #48  
Old 06-09-2017, 05:47 PM
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samg samg is offline
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Thanks Ronnie for your comment on the fighter. It's pretty special.
As to the claimed early knife, without provenance, no matter how much someone "believes" it is true, it can't be accepted as fact. We are all entitled to our opinions, and who really knows?
Sorry to disagree about something Ronnie, but Bill Scagel was the competition😀 Though not early on. I'm sure Bo looked up to Scagels skills, so much so that he tried to duplicate it.
All I know for sure is that in Bob Gaddis' book, he tells how Bo had Al Marchand forge I believe 2 or 3 blades, in case he messed up. Page 36. Then describes the decorative spacers he would need, page 38.
My point is, nowhere in any known publication that I know of is this crude little knife spoken of. If it had Scagel like spacers, maybe. Remember, Bo wanted to duplicate Scagels knife.
As Gaddis' describes on page 35 and 36, Bo had mechanical skills, so was probably capable early on to make at least an aesthetically pleasing knife.
Again, I believe it harms the community if knives are brought up with claims that can't be verified.
What if I took my early astro, put it out there that it was an early prototype that was the very last one that was made before the original 7 were made? That because it was the final design approved by Gordon Cooper, Bo gifted it to him, and I got it in a special auction. I don't think it would fly...
To make any unusual claim in this hobby, provenance is Paramount, no matter how we feel.
Ronnie, I totally respect your opinion, hey, you may be right. But for me, it's just a little crudely made knife that has similar spacers.
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  #49  
Old 06-09-2017, 10:03 PM
jeepster jeepster is offline
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And I totally understand what you are saying. I know I can't prove that Bo made didn't that knife and no one else can prove he didn't. However with respect to Scagel being Bo's competition well, that goes without saying. But Scagel wasn't copying Bo's knives so he didn't make it. I don't know how many of Bo's knives were made before he started using the stamp but needless to say there are probably more than few out there. One even ended up here in my home town.
Yep that number one is just outstanding.
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  #50  
Old 06-09-2017, 10:46 PM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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With due respects, I agree with Sam. If Joe Blow presented that knife with a claim of RMK provenance the claim would be trashed by the community. It doesn't matter who you are... an amazing "story" is still just a "story." With this knife there apparently is no provenance, it doesn't look or feel like very early RMKs at all. And in Gaddis and other places there are several B&W pictures of early carving knives. None look like this one.

Sincere belief is no substitute for provenance and the source of this knife is unknown as is it's history. It could have been made yesterday so far as anyone knows. Really.. it looks a LOT different than all the early RMKs I've seen in pictures. So, absent some proof, I believe the claim is false and the tag of RMK should be removed. To continue to advertise this as RMK rather than "possibly RMK" is to market a credibility problem.

What is this credibility stuff? As an example, there are hundreds of knives that were supposedly "carried by Special Forces in Vietnam." but "isn't any proof that they were". Tell me what a person would think if someone then said, "well, there isn't any proof they were not carried by Special Forces in Vietnam" No it wouldn't be credible.

Should the statement "we know what a large number of early RMKs looked like" be given the same weight as "well we don't know what all of them looked like, so maybe some of them didn't look like all the others - they looked like this one which looks just like all the others we haven't seen." Does that make sense?

No it does not. People in the collecting community usually require proof and accountability. This knife should not be claimed to be RMK.

Last edited by Jacknola; 06-12-2017 at 03:46 PM.
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  #51  
Old 06-10-2017, 03:23 AM
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samg samg is offline
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We all have at least seen pictures of the earliest Randall knives on line and in publications. I've been to the Randall Museum and seen them up close and personal, the Scagels there too. They are outstanding, aesthetically pleasing works of art. Accented with those decorative spacers, and crown stag. Man they are gorgeous! No wonder Bo couldn't keep them in hand when he first started making them. Then topped off with a beautifully handmade sheath made by Clarence Moore. It just doesn't get any better!





As I stood there at blade looking at this knife...



...identified as an early Randall, I couldn't help but think of all the people who came by and saw it, To have this crude knife etched in their brain as an early example, is an insult to Bo Randall and his legacy IMO.
If the owner of it insists on displaying it, at least balance it out with an early example of Bo Randalls authentic 1st knives, to leave an accurate impression.
Oh well, as Doris Day use to sing...Que Sera Sera...whatever will be will be, the future's not ours to see, Que Sera Sera.

Regards, Sam
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  #52  
Old 06-10-2017, 02:54 PM
william768 william768 is offline
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Samg , really nice of you to share all the pics of those great looking vintage Randall knives.

Awesome 1943 Fighter you have there .

Thanks for all the pics . If you have more , keep them coming !
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  #53  
Old 06-10-2017, 05:49 PM
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Moosehead Moosehead is offline
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Ronnie (jeepster) states: "...I know I can't prove that Bo made didn't that knife and no one else can prove he didn't..."

Well Ronnie, I know I can't prove that Bo DID make the knife, and so far no one else can prove that he DID!

In other words it is incumbent on the person making the claim to back it up with hard, indisputable evidence. Otherwise, anyone can claim anything and then challenge the doubters to prove the claim false. This makes no sense to me.

It's just logical, is it not Mr. Spock?



Live long and prosper!

David


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  #54  
Old 06-10-2017, 06:18 PM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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Maybe we ought to acknowledge the elephant in the room. I think this is the same set of display cases that featured the misleading implication that a certain reconstructed knife was "In the 'forces,' WWII, Korea, Vietnam." Said reconstructed knife was displayed on top of improper Special Forces Green Beret along with a new sheath tooled to represent Special Forces MACVsog in Vietnam....

None of the knives in that display case had any provenance attached that related any of them to one of those wars or to use in the military, any branch, much less Special Forces. Some of them were undoubtedly from the "WWII, Korea, or Vietnam ERA" ... but the implication written on the cards in that case was that all those knives were actually "In the 'forces;'" i.e. carried in the military during those wars. Without some proof that claim is patently misleading.

And now comes the claim about this "early RMK" before-RMK-stamp carving knife. And it seems this isn't the first time a suspect claim has been put forward. I'm thinking of a middle 60s Bowie claimed to be "one of the first made..." among other whoppers. Well, I suppose people can be charitable about this. I'm taking it for what it seems to be ...

It is a shame, a darn shame...

Last edited by Jacknola; 06-12-2017 at 03:49 PM.
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  #55  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:20 PM
jeepster jeepster is offline
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I understand all of that crap moosehead. I can't prove it was made by Bo and the guy that showed it can't prove it unless maybe he got it from the son of a man who received it as a gift from Bo in 1937 or maybe 38. wouldn't that be cool.....it happened to a man right here in Batesville, MS. At any rate I'm simply saying I like the knife. When Samg first posted it I thought OMG there is an early Bo made knife. I still believe it is a Bo made knife. And I don't give a rat's harry heiny if anybody else believes that or not. It doesn't matter who believes it or not.

Last edited by jeepster; 06-11-2017 at 01:54 AM.
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  #56  
Old 06-11-2017, 05:32 AM
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Hey Ronnie,
What happened in Batesville MS? An early Randall?
Sam
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  #57  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:26 AM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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Early Randall's

Here are a couple fairly early ones.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg crown 1.jpg (38.1 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg crown 2.jpg (40.5 KB, 14 views)
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  #58  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:29 PM
jeepster jeepster is offline
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Long, long story Samg. Here it is in a few words. Met an old man who learned I liked Randall Knives. He had been the guide for Bo Randall on a hunt in Southern Bama or Mississippi in late 30's....don't remember which. Bo gave him a knife. Explained his hobby. Knife had stag handle and no trademark. Man gave knife to son. Son's house burned. Knife destroyed. Man became a good friend. Was a very good man. Sadly he's gone now.

Last edited by jeepster; 06-11-2017 at 11:50 PM.
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  #59  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:32 PM
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That's a bitter sweet story Ronnie. That he knew Bo, was gifted a knife, which definitely sounds like Bos generosity, passed it on to his son, then the knife was destroyed in a fire.
Thanks for telling it.
Sam
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  #60  
Old 06-12-2017, 12:03 AM
jeepster jeepster is offline
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i questioned the man relentlessly when we had the initial conversation. I never doubted his story and he described an early Bo made knife to the "T". I was just in shock at what I thought I had found. You can imagine how broken I was when I found out what had happened to the knife.
Ronnie
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