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  #1  
Old 10-31-2017, 03:45 PM
RantNRave RantNRave is offline
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Wrought iron slotted guard and pins

Ok, so the goal is to have a 1075 knife with a wrought iron guard and then etch both. This is new to me, so I'm going off what I've been researching. I'm planning on using a pin that will be peened to the blade. Looking ahead, that pin is going to stick out like a sore thumb, isn't it? As I don't want this, I'm wondering what options I have.


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Old 10-31-2017, 06:06 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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I've used a plain old 7018 welding rod for pinning wrought. Can't really tell it's there unless you look real close.
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:06 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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If you know a TIG welder he can spot weld the tip of the pin without hurting the heat treat of the blade. I have done this many times. If you heavily mask off the blade you can mig weld the pin and then grind off. Also a good peen into a slightly counter sunk hole is almost invisible, especially after bluing or polishing, it just can't leave any gaps. I can't recommend stick welding it unless you are really good at it.
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  #4  
Old 10-31-2017, 08:11 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Another way is to use a stub tang style handle. That way, you pin the handle and not the guard. Most all my knives were done that way, especially the ones with wrought guards ...


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Old 11-01-2017, 05:08 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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I agree with ray on this one....unless you have welding skills like jim your better off making a hidden tang...no pin needed in the gaurd
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2017, 05:17 AM
epicfail48 epicfail48 is offline
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Going the other direction, turn it into a feature. Its amazing what something as small as a pin can do to spruce up the design. Depending on how it works i could see a brass pin providing an interest bit of contrast. Worth a test if nothing else
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:03 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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The knife pictured has a wrought iron guard and pommel each with 3-4 pins from 7018 welding rods. My preferred method is a narrow tang bolt through as the guard shoulders and no pins needed. Sometimes the handle material or blade design doesn't allow for that.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:26 PM
RantNRave RantNRave is offline
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I like the idea of the welding the pin. I do have a welder and some ability, so I may look at doing this. I have already profiled the knife, including tang, so hidden is out - but I will be doing that as my next knife (the next step in my learning process). Epic, I am considering it as a feature as well, btw.

All good food for thought - thanks again!


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Old 11-02-2017, 08:36 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Better practice up on some scrap....welding steel to WI doesn't always go pretty especially in such a small area. Also if you want it to match you will have to re-etch once you clean up the weld.
I prefer, as Ray and Jim stated, either stub or through tang, no guard pins. Well designed and executed slot fit with the handle mechanically attached via pin or threaded nut - just looks better and works for me.


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  #10  
Old 11-02-2017, 11:54 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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I have a rule in my shop..... a welder (Arc or MIG) NEVER gets used on knives. Doing so creates far more problems than it solves. WI is such inconsistent material when compared to other steel types, it's impossible to know before hand what using a welder on it will do.

That being said, I have, and have seen others have marginal success with TIG welders and no filler wire/rod, but it usually a gamble, with the odds NOT in your favor.


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  #11  
Old 11-03-2017, 06:34 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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If you do your drilled holes right the soft 7018 will peen right in with no problems.
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Old 11-04-2017, 04:07 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Ed, it takes a swift mig tack to do the pins. There is a reason I said TIG weld. It is so precise it will not affect the HT of the blade. I had to weld D2 and figured it out, takes a high preheat. The reason I would never buy a Damascus blade with a welded on tang is because I do not know the skill level of the welder. But a deep countersunk pin I think could be mig welded, but then what is the skill level of the welder? I can do it and it isn't hard, just wrap the blade with a cold wet rag. Problem is the spatter from the weld process and only the TIG doesn't have that.


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Old 11-04-2017, 06:30 AM
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Another thing to consider, if I'm reading your original post correctly, you plan to etch the blade/guard combo at one time. Not recommended, you will have a very hard iffy time killing the etch solution that capillaries up into the joint. If not complete removed, the etchant will continue to eat away in the joint and show itself later on - after you have finished the entire knife. Etch separately and refit, seal the joint with JB weld as you assemble for the final time.

Know what you are saying Jim, but WI is so uncertain when it comes to spot welding. Never know when you might hit that "junk" spot just under the surface and boomyah! Can get ugly real fast, at least for us backyard welders. Definitely not a highly skilled welder here, but I sure know I've had this happen enough times to not try it again.


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  #14  
Old 11-05-2017, 02:25 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Carl, if he covers the blade with a damp rag to prevent any spatter from getting on the blade and spot welds the ends of the pin, I don't see any problem if he has a MIG welder and he practices doing spots with it. I would quench in water immediately after tacking it just cuz. It would impart much less heat to the blade than soldering a guard on would and I rarely ever solder a guard and I leave a cold wet rag on the blade when I do. The problem I am wondering is if the wrought iron is iron or is it black scaled steel? A lot of wrought iron is just plain mild hot rolled A36 steel which welds OK if you grind the scale off. Pure wrought iron is very uncommon, but it welds great. It so uncommon that most people have not even come across it. The problem is if the WI is made from scrap steel which is also out there. A test piece will tell him what he has.

The only guards I ever spot welded the pins on though were stainless, sterling silver or bronze, not brass, I have never used steel for a guard. (I used a MIG on the stainless a couple of times) For a carbon steel alloy knife I usually used brass or bronze when I could get it. Pure bronze is very uncommon too. Much of what passes as bronze has zinc in it and is actually brass. I do not recommend welding brass with an arc weld of any kind without a fan to pull the fumes away from you because zinc vaporizes under an electric arc and is no better than welding galvanized steel. I used to have to weld brass and I hated it because I had to wear a respirator and it was hot enough without that.

By the way the zinc isn't poisonous, that's a common misconception you actually need 100 mgs of it a day, but the hairy long filaments that you see when it burns are bad if inhaled and they are in the smoke. A HEPA filter on your respirator will block them, but have the fan too because if you don't you'll walk around for a couple of days with a strong metallic taste in your mouth and you won't be able to taste your food very well either. Also you don't want that crud in your hair. Don't ask how I know this.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:33 AM
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I agree on the WI. Very few know how to tell from steel and most call anything with black paint on it "WI". I have been very fortunate to be able to find plenty of WI over the years. Just got to be looking and know what you are really looking for. It is one of my most favorite guard and buttcap materials for the style of knives I make. Mostly like it because it etches out very similar to pattern-welded (damascus) steels. Old anchor chain can give some very surprising swirly patterns if used in a cross-cut orientation. Even had a chunk of old wagon wheel rim one time that surprised me. Used it for a large "S" guard for a big bowie, when etched there was a small "cut nail" that had been added to the mix when the rim was forge welded up (or repaired). Showed up right at the top of the upper curve. Have a pic of it, but that was back in the day of the polaroid. It's in a box somewhere.
I usually braze most no ferrous materials when needed, but normally feel a well fitting joint and JB weld does the job just fine.


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1075, bee, blade, brass, design, etch, fixed blade, grind, guard, guards, handle, heat, heat treat, hidden, hidden tang, iron, knife, knives, making, pinning, pins, rod, small, tang, welding


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