Would this jig be useful?

[alexkuzn]

Please take a look at attached pictures.
I designed this jig to help me with blade grinding. The pictures are pretty much self explanatory.
This jig helps to keep the blade at constant angle. Grinding angle is adjusted by rotating big screw.

Do you guys think it'll help to make better blades?

Any suggestions are welcome.


Thanks,
Alex

[Jim Charles]

I take it that the plate is magnitized to hold the blade?
How does the unit move back and forth while grinding and remain at the same angle?
Or does the plate remain stationary and you slide the blank, which makes more sense.

[Ed Caffrey]

I personally think when an indiviudal uses a jig like this it handicaps them from that point on. The reason I say this is that jigs that hold blades at a specific angle are incapable of compensating for various blade shapes/styles. Learning to grind "fee hand" (without jigs) will help you learn to make corrections based on all the variables your going to run into with each different blade you grind. I know several individuals who did not want to take the time to learn how to grind free hand when they started. The jigs they use gave them instant gratification, but at the same time became a crutch for each of them..... Because they are so dependent on the use of the grinding jig, they placed themselves in a position where they only make blades that can be ground with the jig(s), severly limiting themselves as to what style of knife they produce. The worst thing about it is that every knife ground using the jigs looks "machine made"......cold, square, and sterile.

Why would anyone want to purchase a "custom" knife that looks like that, when they could get the same look/feel for a lot less at their local Wal-Mart?

[Ray Rogers]

I think Ed hit the nail square on the head. Perhaps if you are in a manufacturing environment then maybe a jig makes sense. For makers building 'custom' knives it seems to take a lot of the art and craft out of the creation process and limits flexibility at the same time....

[alexkuzn]

I got your point guys. It make sence. I think of this jig as a bike's "third" wheel for a beginner.
As for jig details...
It's not magnetized. You just hold the blade flat agains it. It can be magnetized but it would limit freedom of blade movements.(We are making a custom knife after all)
I have not decided how unit will be attached to the table. May be with just two clams.
It needs to be easily removed since curved part must be done by hands anyway.


Thanks for the input.

[tmiller5087]

Perhaps you all just awnsered my question I was going to ask also. i was wondering for hollow grinding why are belt sanders used instead of say surface grinders with cooling pumps and trays? I have another question also, has anyone used diamond wheels to grind metal? Thank you in advance. I take it you all would frown on a surface grinder type machine that used a cam follower to follow a profile plate that matched the type of blade you wanted to grind. kinda take the fun out of it , huh?

if anyone has an expandable type contact wheel they wanna sell please let me know. Thanks in advance

[Ray Rogers]

From many other threads on the subject, I'd say the general opinion is that you can make a knife using any method you like as long as you explain up front what methods you used to your customers.

You can end up with a good usable knife by any number of different methods. The real difference, at least to me, is whether you want to be the guy who programmed the machine (or built the machine) that built the knife or do YOU want to be a knife maker?

[tmiller5087]

hi Ray , how you been?

there is a lot of different operations to building a knife then just the grinds, is there not? There are guys on here respected knife makers that have mills , surface grinders all kinda equipment to help in the other operations of building a knife. If you want to cut a profile using a plasma cutter or tourch you need a pattern to run the nozzle along to keep your lines straight. If you want to cut a slot you put a end mill in a Mill and crank a handle if you want to heat treat you put a blade in a oven and press a button. Did the person that has all these tools and used them build the knife or operate the machines that built the knife? I realize that it is a learned skill to grind a blade by hand but no more of a skill then say heat treating a blade to the proper hardness in a bed of coals and telling by the color of the steel when its at the right tempature to quench it.

[Andries Olivier]

If you really feel you need to use this jig I suggest you screw the adjustmentscrew in from the bottom. Pressure against the belt will compress the spring and change your grinding angle. If you standardize on the bolsterpin position you can attach pins to the jig or use small screws to hold the blade in position. You can also put stoppers on both sides of your platten to ensure perfect symmetry where the grind starts at the ricasso.

However I must say I agree with all the above comment. Jigs will definitely inhibit design and geometry. You will also find that it complicates frequent cooling. Freehand grinding gives you much more artistic freedom and ads meaning to the term "handmade".

[tmiller5087]

Well speaking on the handmade personal touch side.....I just got my mosaic bolster material from Chris Marks of marksforge.com and I couldn't be happier with them. absolutly flawless. But since they are going on the DDR3-BL im gonna hafta take a end mill to them. Now if i can only get some custom Damascus, Cough , cough

[Ray Rogers]

Actually T, I use all those machines you just mentioned. And, in my opinion, those machines did not build the knife, i.e., they are power tools guided by my hand to do operations that I could do by hand if I wasn't quite so lazy. However, that jig predetermines what grind can go on a specific blade, a CNC machine will make exactly the same moves each time a program is run, even a plasma cutter following a pattern will do exactly the same thing each time. With power tools such as you mentioned there are variations each time due to the human hand that guides them and the fact that there are no patterns to follow or programs to run.

Not that any of that is excessively important, just trying to clarify what I had meant. There are, as you said, many operations that go into making a knife and Alexkuzn is talking about giving up control over only one of them. But, then it is easier to give up the next and so on until you have to wonder who is actually making the knife.

It makes little difference to me what methods a person chooses to use to make a knife but if their intent is to claim the title of knifemaker then they need to give these issues some consideration. I was a computer programmer for 25 years and i have used CNC to make 'things'. If those 'things' had been knives I still would not have called myself a knifemaker even though the end result might have been a knife as good as any I can make now. In my opinion I am a knifemaker now and I was a programmer then....

[tmiller5087]

Ray

Actualy I agree with both what you and Ed both believe, I fell the same way . We as humans are always looking for the easy most convient way out. even if that way isn't the best way to achieve our goals. Knife making is an art form that reqiures skills that one obtains over time. Each Knife a maker makes has his parts of it that he is proud of and also parts maybe hes not so happy with. But each knife he makes contains a part of him and he can proudly say i made that with my own two hands.......except that one part i used my foot. I am sure when people start using belt grinders to make knives there was those that argued agaisnt it also. I also think the only reason it did become popular was becouse of the speed at wich a pro could put out finished knives and boost his income. Is Mr Fisk proud of the machines he builds to help make a knife faster and also the attachments that help make some operations easier, I would say he sure is , why wouldn't he be? I have aqiured enough pieces parts in the last two years to build three belt grinders mostly becouse i would rather make a knife on a machine i designed and built. I enjoy that. Then I start thinking I should make a few with a file first learn that way its slower and i can tell whats going on better etc. etc. so then I sell my contact wheels my idler and drive wheels and pieces parts. Today I just recieved the ten ball bearings I bought of ebay To make me more lol. So I guess my point is .....Myself i am not a pro knife maker probably never will be, I just want to make one great knife i can proudly say I made that. At first i thought i would need the same tools as a pro....but I don't , actualy I would rather take my time and use my hands and some elbow grease along with hand tools when i can .I just think it would mean more to me when i look down at it and think i made that. It will take time to aquire the skills that i don't have to reach that moment . When I am ready to grind knives it will be on a machine i built also......I'm just not that sure a belt grinder is the best choice all that heat and all. I also would rather learn to forge my own blades instead of stock removal...but where i live that is unrealistic so stock removal it is. I would also say its important to know your limitations...So if i get a piece of steel worth a few hundred dollars...at this point in time i will use any machine jig or fixture I can not to mess it up. lol

Oh I forgot....yeah that jig would probably be usefull but this would be even more usefull

http://members.aol.com/pavl5/myhomepage/business.html

the question is... you sure you want to use them?

[TikTock]

Some would say its going to be easier to screw it up with a jig than using a file. That jig gets angled for one second with a 60 grit belt spinning and your perfectly flat bevel will have a gouge that nothing will take out from the edge of the platen. Its all in the hands of the user. I did my first blade all with files. it was a great process but not one id want to do again. My first fixed blade I ground on a belt. Its amazing what 20 minutes of draw filing can do for a poorly ground convex piece of steel. I doubt many pros can hand grind bevels as flat as any new maker with a 16" mill file and some patience can do draw filing....its just the time you want to put into it.

Honestly, being as relatively new as I am, I would be nervous grinding on a 100$ piece of steel, too. I would like to get my hands on a jig like your just to see how it works!

[Frank Niro]

Why is it that when someone says they have a grinding jig of some sort that many have to figure it won't work or worse yet should not be used? Why not throw out your surface grinder or milling machine or drill press for that matter? They are all tools that mechanically take the hand skill out of the making. Just because you use the milling machine and do not have a grinding jig that works well for you doesn't mean someone else shouldn't use one. If it helps you get to where you want to go, where is the harm? The fact that some claim a grinding jig is so restrictive just must mean the ones they have seen or tried have been that way. What if I had a simple device that worked with easy that allowed me to do all sorts of blade grinding? You bet your boots I would use it. Some makers are not only making blades with their surface grinders and milling machines but also doing scale shaping and carvings as well. It is more common than you may want to believe. Me, well I don't have a surface grinder or milling machine so I know and have to do it by hand, but I do have two belt grinders and you wouldn't want to give those up would you? If I can do a good thing that way, and I did say if, then what's the problem. If you want to use the surface grinder and milling machine, pantogragh, and what else, then don't be too quick to condemn the grinding jig that may work for someone elsefor what they want to do at a given time. There have been a lot of people who have had problems operating surface grinders and they come to a point where they change them over to a belt overhead system.Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Not if it does the job for them. There is no development without trial. Frank

[Ray Rogers]

T,

As long as you're building your belt sander anyway build one that is variable speed. That and sharp belts will pretty much take care of any heat issues.

As for forging vs stock removal, I don't think I know of anyone who can forge a blade so perfectly as to not need to do any stock removal on it later. For most of us there is usually quite a bit of stock removal to be done after forging....