draw filing

[Omega]

i just read an old thread by max the knife on draw filing. i have just one question where he says you start at the tip and file to the riasco is that the same motion as when you sharpen a knife on a stone?


thanks bill

[Ray Rogers]

Bill,

I'm not sure that question makes sense, or maybe I'm not understanding what you really want to know. Draw filing has nothing to do with sharpening the knife so the motion involved really isn't all that similar. Draw filing would be used for bulk metal removal to establish the primary bevel on the blade. It is a manual way of doing the same job many of us do with a belt grinder and a 60 grit belt.......

[Terry_Dodson]

i think drawfiling is the same as using a draw knife on wood, grab both ends of the file, place the tip of the blade away from you, keep the file 90 degrees to the blade and pull towards you. at least that is how i understand it.

edited cause i cant spell

[Omega]

no i know its not used to sharpen the blade i just meant is the motionn the same or maybe i dont understand what the file looks like i thought it was just a regular flat file but you used it with a different motion may be i need to find a file like that then ill understand



bill

[Ray Rogers]

I think the file in question is just a regular file but, of course for rapid stock removal, you would want it to be coarse and agressive. Then, as far as I know, you use it pretty much like terry said........

[mete]

Draw filing is a finish filing job after you have rough filed. It is done with a single cut file, and as Terry says ,hold at 90 degrees to the stroke. You can file either toward or away from you whichever is more comfortable. Have a file card handy and clean the file often as bits of metal in the teeth will score your work. Some apply chalk to the file to minimize metal sticking to the file.

[navajas]

Brownells sells draw filing files

[Terry Primos]

I do plenty of draw filing on larger knives. I prefer a pull cut to a push cut. The blade is clamped down in front of me with the tip pointing toward me, and I pull (draw) the file toward myself from the ricasso shoulders to the tip.

The file is directional. For the pull cuts such as I do the tang of the file goes in the left hand. For a push cut tip to ricasso the tang of the file would go in your right hand.

When you start out the going is slow and you may think that it's not going to work. But just keep going with nice even strokes. Once the uneven flats start to work down you will progress quickly.

Things To Remember

• Don't be tempted to scrub back and forth. You will ruin the file and it won't help your work at all.
• Keep the teeth of the file clean. Little chips of the steel can get embedded in the teeth and will gall the piece. Galling means that it will score a deep scratch in your nice smooth piece. You can use a file card or a small stiff wire brush to clean out the teeth. I usually just whack the file on the workbench every couple of strokes. Of course I also check to see that it's clean before making another stroke.
• Don't work just one area. If you have a scratch in a low spot you can't just work that area to get the scratch out. All you'll do is create a divot. The entire surface from ricasso shoulders to tip has to be brought down. When you are dealing with a low spot, an easy way to check your progress is to paint over the low spot with a Magic Marker. As the rest of the blade is brought down you will begin to "erase" the area that you've colored in.
• Be patient. Draw filing is not as bad as some folks think, but it's certainly not like using a grinder with a 60 grit belt. It takes time and patience. The results are rewarding when you've done the job properly.

I imagine people are sick of seeing this one since it's already been posted elsewhere, but this Bowie was primarily done by draw filing. After forging and annealing I did use the grinder to knock off the "bark" from the blade bevels and define the ricasso shoulders a little better.

Then I went from a 60 grit belt to draw filing with a standard bastard file. Once everything was flat I went to a finer mill bastard. The final finish was done after heat treating by hand rubbing, starting with 120 grit paper wrapped around a file, progressing through the grits to 1000 grit.

[TexasJack]

Get sick of seeing THAT knife? No way!

What a great example to go with the technique description!

[rhrocker]

Well I'm sick about it Terry! I'm sick that it isn't in my hands here in Uvalde, Texas! (However I do have one very nice Primos here).

[Zeev]

I also do draw filing in all of my knives, and it takes me a long time.
How much time does it takes when you do it?

[Stormcrow]

All good advice. I've found that a lathe file works very well for agressive draw-filing and will eat the metal off in short order. Lathe files aren't all the common, and you sure can't find one in a Home Despot or Lowe's (at least I've never seen such), but I managed to find one in a fairly well-stocked tool store.

The angle of the teeth on lathe files are different.

Be careful if you file from the ricasso to the tip, because the tip has a nasty habit of flexing downwards and then throwing little steel shavings up into your eyes. Which also kind of screws up the tip. So maybe going from tip to ricasso is better. I hadn't thought of that...

Also, it helps a lot to sand off the forge scale with some 100 grit or coarser before you start filing. The file will skate over the scale pretty badly until you get down past it. Best to remove it before you start filing.

[Terry Primos]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

... Be careful if you file from the ricasso to the tip, because the tip has a nasty habit of flexing downwards and then throwing little steel shavings up into your eyes. Which also kind of screws up the tip. So maybe going from tip to ricasso is better. I hadn't thought of that...

Oh ye of little faith.

Pulling toward yourself is definitely the way to go. That's why it's called draw filing. You are drawing the file toward you, not pushing it away. You'll find that you have better control and more strength pulling than pushing.

You did well in visualizing potential problems, but once you got there you stopped thinking. (just poking fun)

The blade must have support. As you were thinking, because of the distal taper of the blade, the tip will be suspended in air. So will part of the center of the blade. So you have the problem of the middle of the blade bowing and the tip bending as you draw the file across the blade. The bow will cause you to dish out the center, and the tip will bend causing you to round it off. Also, you will have these problems whether you are pulling or pushing.

Here's how I address that problem.

My sanding and draw filing fixture


I use the same fixture for my draw filing that I use for hand sanding. You have the same problems already discussed when hand sanding -- that being the possibility of the center bowing, and the tip bending. This helps resolve these problems.

I don't have a good shot of the fixture, so this will have to suffice for now. I don't feel like trudging in the mud and cold to go out to the shop and take photos. I will however, do a quick drawing to show you what it looks like and how it works. Here's all there is to it.




I have a strip of leather with a hole in one end. The clamp bolt pictured above goes through that hole. The strip of leather is to protect the blade. The reason of the oblong milled hole in the clamp is so I can move the clamp left or right as needed.

The tang goes under the clamp and is secured. Then the pieces of all thread are brought up to support the blade all the way to the tip. So you don't have the bowing and bending, and you won't hear that *thunk* or *boing* as you come straight off the tip. Works like a charm. I can do anything from a 2 1/2" blade to a 12" blade with no problem.

[Cadillac Forge]

eureka!!!! terry that draw filing fixture is an excellent idea, thank you this helps more
than anything i have read on the subject --and as far as people getting tired of seeing
the knife in the above thread under this topic i personally marvel at that blade everytime i see it. its a masterpiece yhat would be one that wouldnt be for sale thanks bb

[Greg obach]

Terry .... that is fantastic !
I thought I was doing good with a 4by4 fixed to a lathe bed.....and a C-clamp on the end....
this looks great... thanks amigo

Greg