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The Damascus Forum The art and study of Damascus steel making.

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  #1  
Old 10-02-2006, 10:18 AM
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Question Questions on Devin Thomas stainless

Hi guys,

I have some of Devin's raindrop and I checked his sight for handling. I'm a little confused now.

I've been told to treat it just like ATS, but Devin's site handles it more like carbon steel. Also I know that different damascus have different ways of finishing it to get the best look. What finish would you guys use? The only other damascus I've used was Damasteel and that I finished to 2000 before etching.

Thanks,
Jim


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  #2  
Old 10-02-2006, 11:36 AM
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I haven't looked at his website but the information I received with the stainless damascus I got from him says to heat treat at 1975 for 10 minutes, quench in oil, temper two times at 350 for one hour, and cryo is recommended. Doesn't sound like a carbon steel process to me.

For finishing, he recommends 400 grit and specifically says do not buff. Etch in 50/50 FeCl for 10 minutes, repeat as desired, buff lightly one time before last etch if you want a brighter blade ...


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Old 10-02-2006, 12:27 PM
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Thanks for the response Ray,

Sorry, being still fairly new I thought oil quenching was a carbon technique. Since my shop is a spare room of the house I'm not setup for oil quenching. Tried it once and set the alarms off for an hour and had ADT calling to confirm the alarm.

After seeing your response I called Devin (to make sure I didn't waste $80 on steel I couldn't process) and he did say I could plate quench with forced air.

Thanks again,
Jim


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Old 10-02-2006, 04:50 PM
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Well, Devin's website says that his stainless damascus steel is made from AEB - L and 304.

AEB-L is a steel from Udeholm in Sweden and contains C 0,7; Si 0,3; Mn 0,6; Cr 13,5; Mo 0,3.

304 is 18 Cr / 10 Ni and hence a non hardening austenitic stainless steel.

I would not try to plate and/ or air quench this material if i am looking for really good results. Also, for good results, you should perform a cryo quench in liquid nitrogen.

Achim
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2006, 06:50 PM
Larrin Larrin is offline
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Plate quenching works just fine. You can also leave it in the foil packet and go directly in to water.
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Old 10-02-2006, 08:15 PM
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Just to be on the safe side since I now understand you have not processed stainless before I would point out that you will need a heat treat oven for this steel. You don't want to do this stuff in a forge or with a torch. Considering that your shop is in a spare room most likely you do have an oven but I figured I'd make sure so you wouldn't waste your steel .........


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Old 10-02-2006, 08:22 PM
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Listen to Larrin, he makes the stuff and like Ray said, I hope you have a high temp oven.


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Old 10-03-2006, 04:56 AM
AchimW AchimW is offline
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He makes AEB-L? Well, ok, i was wrong. I thought it was made by Uddeholm steel in Sweden.
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:10 AM
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Now my head is really spinning. A bit afraid to try with people going back and forth

I'll just have to give it a try and hope, but its all part of the learning curve.

Ray, I really appreciate your help. I am very nervous about the cost of the steel verses my inexperience. I do work mostly in CPM steels with plate quench and forced air (usual from a can), that's why I don't know much about the oil quenching or carbon steels. Sorry about the confusion.

Larrin, Devin mentioned that but I'm still learning how to grind properly and I have gotten warping when I water quenched previous blades.

Thanks for jumping in and helping all,
Jim


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Old 10-03-2006, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AchimW
He makes AEB-L? Well, ok, i was wrong. I thought it was made by Uddeholm steel in Sweden.
Larrin is Devin's son and helps make the pattern welded material. He or Devin would be the guys to ask how to heat treat the steel they make.


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Old 10-03-2006, 11:33 AM
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I'm not sure where McKinny is, but you're welcome to come down and use my ovens and oil baths...assuming the blade fits in them! I'm in Bryan, TX (actually Kurten, but you probably won't find that on a map!).


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Old 10-03-2006, 11:58 AM
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Thanks for the offer but McKinney is north of Dallas. Looks like it's about 3.5 hours, 4 by the way Texans drive (grew up in Detroit, no one gets speeding ticket there!!). I'll remember that for the future though!! I'd like to get out around TX, OK, AR & LA to meet other makers & see the shops but between Reserve duty and normal life I've only had a few local chances.

If I get to nervous I can always send it to Paul Bos.

Thanks for your guys help,
Jim


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Old 10-03-2006, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drac
.....Looks like it's about 3.5 hours, 4 by the way Texans drive.....
I made it to Texarkana in 4 hrs back in July.


Now that the weather is back down in the low 90's we'll be starting up the knifemaker meets again down here. Plenty of crash space here if you decide to come down to one.


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Old 10-03-2006, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drac
Now my head is really spinning. A bit afraid to try with people going back and forth

I'll just have to give it a try and hope, but its all part of the learning curve.

Ray, I really appreciate your help. I am very nervous about the cost of the steel verses my inexperience. I do work mostly in CPM steels with plate quench and forced air (usual from a can), that's why I don't know much about the oil quenching or carbon steels. Sorry about the confusion.

Larrin, Devin mentioned that but I'm still learning how to grind properly and I have gotten warping when I water quenched previous blades.

Thanks for jumping in and helping all,
Jim
If you have experience with plate quenching CPM steels, then heat treating the stainless damascus should be no problem, just heat treat like normal, and use the right temperatures. You're getting nervous about nothing.

Oh, and for finishing, 400 grit is fine like it says on the website. The coarser the finish, the darker the etch, the finer the finish, the shinier the bright layers will be. The best way to get the best of both is to get a 400 grit belt finish, then etch in Ferric Chloride, then hand rub with something like 600 grit sandpaper to brighten up the 302 (bright layers), then go back in, etc. until you get what you want.

Damasteel is way more difficult to etch. You rarely see anyone with a good dark/bright contrast. Even guys that use a lot of it usually etch deep and get a light grey on the dark layers at best.

Water quenching in the foil can cause problems if you're inexperienced in any of several different areas of grinding and/or heat treating, which is probably why we don't recommend it in our literature. There are also several heat treating myths that can screw it up also, like poking a hole in the foil, or putting paper (or kerosene, etc.) in the foil. If you're getting good results with plate quenching, however, there's no reason to change now.
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Old 10-04-2006, 09:20 AM
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I agree with that on Damasteel about the contrast, but I do like it deep etched and buffed.

I started grinding last night so we'll see how it goes.

Thanks,
Jim


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