Outrageous Comments should be challenged!

[Buddy Thomason]

The comments below recently appeared in a thread on this forum. The thread was begun by a knifemaker seeking advice about establishing a workable price for his knives. An individual, a CKD 'leading member', responded with the following:
?No offense to rich people, but there are customers out there with more money than sense. Many of them are indiscriminating, about knives or anything else. They see what they like and they buy it; price being a rare consideration.
Your job as a knifemaker is to do the best you can with the materials and tools at your disposal, then find people who fit the category described in the paragraph above. I haven't subscribed to the Wall Street Journal for all these years for nothing, you know.
I stand by my assertion that you charge what the market can bear. It's a rare collector who's living from paycheck to paycheck and buying knives instead of beans or diapers or quadruple bypass surgery. Serious collectors can afford, and will pay, practically any price you name, because for them money isn't the object. It's not even a consideration. Possession is.
Case in point: I've got a collector in Colorado who's bought several of my knives. Turns out he's an MD so he's not destitute by any means. I show him one of my knives, he asks how much, I gulp and quote an outrageous price (for a good knife from an unknown newbie maker). Next day the money is in my PayPal account and the knife is in the mail. He hasn't returned one yet or even quibbled about the price.
That's the mindset of many collectors (not to generalize, because I'm sure there are highly discriminating collectors who will drive hard bargains, but only because they enjoy that aspect of the transaction, too, not because they can't afford it). They get to show the knife to their buddies and say, "Yep, I paid $900 for this beauty!" Although you, the maker, think it might have been worth closer to $400-500.
Sorry if all this seems mercenary. But I've got no sympathy for doctors, CEOs, lottery winners, lawyers, politicians or spoiled rich kids. Some of these people have been sticking it to us for years. It's payback time. If I've got something they want (for a change), they're going to have to pay for it.?

Outrageous, prejudicial and offensive statements like these hurt CKD, hurt fellow knifemakers, hurt collectors and make sure visitors or guests viewing the forums don't return! In one stroke, comments like those quoted above can wipe out a whole year's effort put forth by many other people who are seeking to promote our common interest in custom knives. At first I thought it best to remain silent and ignore. Mistake! History teaches that silence = agreement. We are all free to say what we will, but that does not mean we can do so without consequences - or without concern for the potential negative impact on those around us.

[Mike Hull]

I didn't read the original thread, but seeing this, I wish I had.
This reply, at least, is hilarious in it's brutal honesty.

The person was asked his opinion, and he is welcome to give it.

Censorship will hurt far worse in the long run.

Still LMAO!!

[Jeff Higgins]

I agree, Mike. Censorship would hurt CKD.

Buddy, we do have a sense of decorum here. Money, politics, and religion - when coupled with knifemaking - will occasionally set someone off on a rant. Honestly, I would never bash a customer's buying habits. That's up to them, and just poor form. If someone wants to stereotype the knifebuying public, they are only tightening their own noose.

I think we all try to keep things friendly here. My goal is that once I go full time I'll take a year off and just travel around to visit all the pals I have made here on CKD and Bladeforums.

[SharpByCoop]

Buddy has a valid point. As I read (reread?) this post it makes me mad, but also disappointed. Prejudicial arrogance should not be mistaken for good opinion. Certainly not my take on who the typical wealthy collector profile is.

No one said it should be censored, Mike. Wrong point, but I agree, too. That statement is pointing directly at Buddy and even myself. Oh, not us, you say? Why not? I pay big money for a good knife. It's just not fair or true.

Coop

[Ray Rogers]

In my experience with wealthy people I would say that they either have good sense or they don't stay wealthy for long.

The writer of that opinion didn't set out to offend anyone. The statement is presented with a fairly even hand and no objectionable language. The fact that we all (me included) are not comfortable with his opening statement does not make it an illegal opinion for these forums. In other words, he's entitled to his opinion as long as it can be presented in civilized language and without breaking any societal taboos such as being racially, sexually, or religiously denegrating.

The rest is karma - and a good lesson to all of us: be careful what you write here. It stays around forever and can come back to haunt you .........

[Wulf]

I've got no sympathy for doctors, CEOs, lottery winners, lawyers, politicians or spoiled rich kids.

And I've got no sympathy for shallowminded halfwits who like to judge their customers not by the content of their character but by the size of their checkbooks.

Our friend Frank may feel that only those who can't afford to pay a premium for his knives are worthy of his respect. But he will have none of mine either.

Anyway, before I get off on a rant here, let me just add that Frank seems to have no problems making silly assumptions and blanket statements about people he hardly knows, so I doubt he'll mind one bit when I say that his malevolence is merely the manifestation of his own self-doubt and low self-esteem. He obviously doesn't think his knives are worth much, and so he must question and deride anyone else's willingness to pay more.

But Buddy, please don't let this clown fool you. The vast majority of knifemakers actually respect and appreciate their customers, enjoy the interaction, and, at times even forge very rewarding friendships with them. While Frank's words may not be very inspiring to the casual reader or the knife buying public at large, in the end, they hurt him more than they could ever hurt the CKD or its membership.

[Wulf]

Wow. I just re-read my post a few times and I think perhaps I came across a bit, well, meaner than I had intended. Sorry about that, folks

It has been a long week, I suppose, and my first instinct when I read this was to defend my friend Buddy, who, it seems, has been unfairly mislabeled and derided by someone I do not know.

In so doing, however, I foolishly behaved in the very same disrespectful manner to which I had reacted so adversely.

For that I apologize.

I guess the lesson here is that even an the apparent anonymity of an online setting such as this, or in a forum where you think only you're friends are "listening," your words can have a very real and very reaching impact.

[RogerP]

Originally posted by Ray Rogers
The writer of that opinion didn't set out to offend anyone. The statement is presented with a fairly even hand and no objectionable language.

Well, how about: "But I've got no sympathy for doctors, CEOs, lottery winners, lawyers, politicians or spoiled rich kids. Some of these people have been sticking it to us for years. It's payback time. If I've got something they want (for a change), they're going to have to pay for it.? ??

I have no idea what the writer's intentions were, but I certainly find his choice of language objectionable. And's let's put the straw man of censorship to bed - nobody said he should be censored. Buddy said that comments like that should not go un-challenged, and I agree.

Roger

[BrB]

Several diferent subjects in one thread... very interesting.

First of all.. I agree that when that quoted statement was made, it was not made in a disrespectfull way (at least not ofr us but for his costumers). This person oly spoke free his mind and there is nothing to be done or moderated if he hasn't attacked anyone.

Now there is really one issue about how he treated his costumers, and I do agree that a newbie can get a wrong idea about the whole subject. But again, if the reader can go through other messages, them he/she will figure that's about one man's opinion, and nothing more.

As far as pricing one's work, I surely know how good or how crappy my knives are, that is why I am not selling them yet, even though I am a dealer. That being said, when I decide to start selling them (very soon I hope) I will have to price them for what they are worth, and not for what the costumer can pay. There is always room for negociation, of course, but in a quest for being fair in pricing and quality, I guess it is always about your performance and about how are the prices for similar quality blades.

That is the same method I use to help the makers who I work with when pricing their knives.

One thing is for sure... I woudn't be one of his costumers now, even if his knives became very cheap and of high quality. One of the reasons I choose to work with hand made craft is that when you make something with your hands using your personal effort to, you fill it up with your intentention and your emotions (energy some would say) and I surely don't want some of that in my home.

[Mike Hull]

Originally posted by Wulf

It has been a long week, I suppose, and my first instinct when I read this was to defend my friend Buddy, who, it seems, has been unfairly mislabeled and derided by someone I do not know.

.........

Wulf, I hope you don't think I was attacking your friend, I wasn't.
He is welcome to state his opinion too.

I was remarking on the post he was quoting, which is so ludicrous as to be very funny, to me at least, and voicing my opinion on censorship. Nothing else.

[Ray Rogers]

Wulf,

Yes, parts of your first post probably did stretch the CKD's boundaries a bit. Emotional subjects can do that to all of us. Perhaps it would be better if it wasn't left that way though. A little judicious editing on your part could leave your post with an equivalent emotional impact but minus the name calling.

RogerP,

Well, how about : "But I've got no sympathy for doctors, CEOs, lottery winners, lawyers, politicians or spoiled rich kids. Some of these people have been sticking it to us for years. It's payback time. If I've got something they want (for a change), they're going to have to pay for it.? ??

I read it as a silly and unpopular, ill considered and generally crass opinion but still just an opinion. Sure, it's just a judgment call on my part but he isn't naming names or trying to flame a particular person. The categories mentioned are so large and contain so many individuals who must clearly vary substantially from each other as to render the entire observation just plain silly. If I were a member of one of those groups (I wish!) the only thing that I would find insulting about the remark is that I have to share my air with someone who would make such a statement.

Anyway, we should move on. To concentrate our energies on this type of thing only keeps us from doing something useful. I'd prefer to talk about making knives.......

[RogerP]

Originally posted by Ray Rogers
Anyway, we should move on. To concentrate our energies on this type of thing only keeps us from doing something useful. I'd prefer to talk about making knives.......

Ray - with that, I could hardly agree more.

Roger

[Frank J Warner]

Hi. I'm the idiot who wrote the stuff in the original poster's quote.

Buddy, You've done me a service I can't repay. Looking at what I said, it's clear that I was disrespectful and out of line. It was outrageous and out of character, and I would take it all back if I could.

My interest is in making the best knives I can. That's all. The true fact is that someone else takes care of the sales, and I have been advised by that person (who is also the light of my life) that not only was I wrong, wrong, wrong, but I was also stupid, stupid, stupid, and a pitiful example of customer service. She is standing behind me right now, whacking me (ow!) upside the head (that hurts!) for being such a befuddled, contrary, politically opinionated and class-bashing bourgouis?. She wants everybody to know that my knives are well-made and fairly priced, no matter how much they cost, and how deep this hole is.

I also want to mention that none of the people who have actually purchased my knives have been CEOs or lottery winners or spoiled rich kids (to the best of my knowledge). Heck, I've even given some of my knives away for free, just because I'm a nice guy (but don't tell her that! {OW!!!})

I've also been advised that my activities on this forum are being monitored by the sales department. So, from now on, I am to confine my remarks to production-related matters, and to leave customer relations to those who might actually know something about the subject.

I remain contrite, and cowered by forces much more powerful than myself,

-Frank J Warner

[Buddy Thomason]

Frank,

"Hats off" to you, sir. From my own personal goofs in the past I know how hard it can be to step up and do what you've just done!

I really don't want this thread to be on the forum for all to see and puzzle over, after the fact, so to speak. Within the next 24 hours I'll delete my initial post above and the thread will go with it.

But in those few hours I hope some of the good folks who responded above will wander back and see your reply. You've just shown me and all who might see this thread how to do a very hard thing!

Onward through the fog! You keep making the best knives you can make and I'll keep buying the best knives I can buy. That's what makes our little knife-world go 'round.

Best wishes,
Buddy

[Bob Warner]

Just so everyone understands, it was FRANK not BOB that said that. You sales department can now smack you again


Sorry Frank, could not resist. Besides, it will all be gone in a little while. You might want to go edit your original post a little.