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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 11-15-2017, 08:15 PM
blitt214 blitt214 is offline
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Temper question

Ok weird question what will affect the temper more temperature or number of cycles
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:29 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Temperature is the main factor. Total length of temper time also figures into it. Two hours of tempering time will get you just about all the tempering effects at a given temperature that you're going to get. Some of our hypoeutictic and eutectic steels can get by with one tempering cycle. Your hypereutictic steels may need multiple cycles to get retained austenite to convert. Of course the best thing to do with these steels is not to overheat them and put too much carbon into solution in the first place.

Doug


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  #3  
Old 11-16-2017, 05:45 AM
blitt214 blitt214 is offline
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I'm using 1080 so more than two cycles at the same temp won't soften it any more than just the two cycles?
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:21 AM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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Not really. It would take hours upon hours upon hours (a day or more???) to significantly drop HRC. The higher the alloy, the more temper cycles. No more than 3 cycles, 2 hours each.

Doug is right, most of the low alloy steels (like 1080) only need a single 2 hour temper. I've even been told ONE hour for simple steels is plenty. The Japanese would only "temper" for a very very short amount of time (not saying that it is right, but they've made millions of very nice kitchen knives using a very short primitive temper method).

For steels like 1080, 1084, 1095, I do two cycles, 2 hours each, just for peace of mind. 52100, O1, O7, CFV steels like that, I treat them as if they were higher alloy stainless and tool steels, and actually do 2 hours each cycle, 3 times. I am certain that is overkill, but it doesn't drop the HRC any.
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2017, 02:15 PM
blitt214 blitt214 is offline
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I did 2 one hour cycles at 400 degrees when I broke the blade it seemed like it might have still be too hard I'm not really sure how to test at what point a blade should snap
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:10 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Blitt at 400 degrees a 2 hour temper would have worked better than heating and cooling it twice. Try it at 400 for two 2 hour tempers. It should be around RC 60 if the austenize heat was in the range to leave the fine grain you said you had. The 5 degree break on .090 thick material is a bit too hard, but how hard do you want it to be? 1080 is a simple steel and if you want flexibility you'll have to temper down properly. As stuart said above you won't hurt it to temper it at the same heat, but one hour tempers are not going to temper it properly. Stuart can explain it better than I.

I temper 1080 at 425 for one temper @ 2 hours, but I haven't used it by itself for a long time except for making Damascus which I prefer to make a little softer like in the RC 57-8 range. I also made two huge daggers and tempered them at 475 because I wanted them to be more flexible as they are for a bear attack or for fighting and breaking isn't an option, but that also means they won't hold an edge as well.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:17 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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Flexibility is 90% more dependent on thickness than temper.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:13 AM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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Flexibility is 100% dependent on geometry/thickness than how hard it is. How hard it is will determine the failure. Bend vs break
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  #9  
Old 05-31-2018, 02:48 PM
WBE WBE is offline
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I was not sure if it was 100%, but I knew it was close to it.
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  #10  
Old 05-31-2018, 02:54 PM
WBE WBE is offline
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Hey Stuart, what happened to hypefree blades forum? My puter has down for a while, when I tried today, it would not come up.
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  #11  
Old 06-01-2018, 12:13 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I just googled it up and found redirect hype free blades. It seems that it has been having software problems for awhile and Kevin, with his other obligations and being sole moderator, decided to go in other directions and shut down the board. I don't know if he has other plans for the home site but I think that the board is gone.

Doug


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  #12  
Old 06-01-2018, 07:08 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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Thanks Doug
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:55 AM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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Yeah, thanks Doug. I hope we see it return, but not holding my breath.
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2018, 12:30 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Let's face it it was pretty inactive. Though in a way that might have been a good thing because it cut down on the non-metallurgy topics. It will, however, be missed.

Doug


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1084, 1095, 52100, bee, blade, carbon, damascus, degrees, edge, how to, japanese, kitchen, kitchen knives, knife, knives, made, material, primitive, question, simple, stainless, steel, temper, thickness, tool


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