Tools and Folders

[Jeremy]

I'm a little ways off from actually trying to make a folder, but have been wondering a few things... For those of you who make them, what tools/machinery do you feel are "needed". I understand that few tools are truly needed, but what are those things that make your life a LOT easier when making a folder? I've seen a few people have surface grinders that use belts instead of hard grinding wheels (which I suppose could be another thread entirely) and many have mills. What's your go to tool?

Thanks in advance for your advice.


Jeremy

[Ed Caffrey]

Well, I can remember when I first started building folders, and "gathed" the items I needed. It can get really depressing when you order $300+ worth of drill bits, reamers, etc. from Enco or MSC, and when it's delivered, it's in an a padded envelope that is smaller than a standard size letter!
First thing you need is a GOOD set of digital calipers, preferably with 4 digits past the decimal point (that is if you dumb like I am and can't read a dial caliper worth a darn)

Folders are going to require that you have "specialty" drill bits and corresponding reamers.....not just fractional sizes, but also number and lettered bits.

Machine wise, I did a few folders without a surface grinder, and would hand sand literally for days on a granite surface plate.....and still couldn't get things "just right". That's what prompted me to save up and purchase the surface grinder. Next in line is the tapping head for threading those tiny holes in a folder. I resisted buying for for about 2 year after I started building folders.....and on average would break 2-3 taps for every folder I tried to build.
That doesn't sound too bad until you consider 2-56 taps (which is the size I most often use on folders) are $9-$15 each! Since sucking it up and buying the tapping head, I have NEVER broken a tap...I've worn a bunch of them out, but never broken one with the tapping head.
A milling machine is also very handy when it comes to folders.....especially if you build liner locks with either a "floating stop pins" or internal stop pins with slotted blades. Most would say you'd also need a rotary table for the mill, but I built a simple jig that allows me to cut those slots without the expense of a rotary table. Cutting locks is by far a lot easier with a milling machine and 2-3" abrasive cut-off wheels/arbor.

Looking around the shop, I would have to say that the vast majority of items/expense with folders is tied up in "parts"...... screws, pivots, pivot screws, bushing, stop pins, drill bits, reamers, thumb studs, countersinks......you get the idea.

The biggest thing concerning folders is that it simply forces you to increase your precision and skills. Things such as having a drill press table which is dead on 90 degrees to the spindle, getting things within .001" of perfectly flat, precision size holes, and just about all the other aspect of knifemaking you can image must have far "tighter" tolerances than are acceptable with "straight knives"......at least if you want your folders to operate correctly/smoothly, and have people "want" them.

That's not meant to warn you off, but it is a different world than just making straight knives. Remember when I told you "look twice as much as you grind?" When it comes to grinding folder blades, LOOK 3 times as much as you grind! Not only does that blade have look straight when the folder is open, but it's gotta be dead center when the folder is closed.

Finally, cut yourself some slack when you start on folders....it's gona take some time and practice to get it figured out.....there are many, many aspects with folders that just are not present with straight knives.

Now, open up the MSC catalog and start making a "wish list"

[Jeremy]

Thanks for the info, Ed. Makes that Bergmaster multi-chuck drill press you've got look that much cooler, now . On the topic of surface grinders, a few questions:

-Is that primarily used to make sure the ricasso area (that attaches at the pivot point) is as flat as possible? I've never used one, but I'm trying to figure out what else it would be used on (for the blade) and can't quite come up with the other uses...

-Also, I see a whole lot of the hard abrasive wheel grinders for sale and none of the belt type. Is that a modification done to take the belts or am I just not looking in the right places?

-I'm noticing different sizes of surface grinders and am wondering what would be a good size for knives and not enormous industrial uses...?


Thanks again.


Jeremy

[Ed Caffrey]

-Is that primarily used to make sure the ricasso area (that attaches at the pivot point) is as flat as possible? I've never used one, but I'm trying to figure out what else it would be used on (for the blade) and can't quite come up with the other uses...

Actually it's not just the ricasso area of a folder.....the entire blade must be flat. In my experience, more than .001" out of flat and a folder will not "work" smoothly enough for me.
I also find many other uses for the surface grinder....from damascus billets, to just about any project where I need to ensure something is very flat and true.

-Also, I see a whole lot of the hard abrasive wheel grinders for sale and none of the belt type. Is that a modification done to take the belts or am I just not looking in the right places?

You won't find any NEW surface grinder that run belts....that is a modification that Knifemakers do. There is some conjecture on which is more accurate (stone wheel or belt).....but I can get within 1/2 thousandth with the belts on my machine. It's also an economic issue for me.....I use the same belts as the grinders, so I don't spend the money on "stone" wheels. Then there's the fact that every time you change a stone wheel on a surface grinder, you've got to go through the process of "truing" it.....meaning you have to make the wheel cut at a true 90 to the table/mag-chuck...which can be a lengthy process.

-I'm noticing different sizes of surface grinders and am wondering what would be a good size for knives and not enormous industrial uses...?

Surface grinders are measured by the table/mag-chuck size they can use..... for example, a 6x12 means that it will accept UP TO a 6" wide X 12" long mag chuck. Same thing for a 6x18, etc. Before I purchase my surface grinder, I did A LOT of researching. I found that ALL of the import 6x12 surface grinders..... Harbor Freight, Grizzly, Jet, J&L, and others are all produced on the same factory floor. They get shipped into San Diego, CA. Where they are arrive in crates of 36 machines per. Those that are going to Jet, Grizzly, etc. get unpacked, repainted, and logos applied. Then They are repacked and shipped to those outfits. Those machines going to Harbor Freight never get unpacked or painted, just forwarded to Harbor Freight. All you have to do is look at the prices to understand that all your paying for is a coat of pain from many of them, where as the Harbor Freight machines you don't. At the time I purchased mine from Harbor Freight, it was $999 with free freight. The machines from Grizzly was $2,399, Jet was $1,899, and J&L was $1,999. So since they were all the exact same machine, with the exception of a coat of paint, I went with the Harbor Freight model.
Unless you know what your look at/for, I hesitate to recommend a used machine. If you happen to get one that needs repairs, especially if it's a very old model that parts are not made for anymore....you'll sink a ton on many into it just to get it "right".

[Jeremy]

Thanks for all the input, Ed. Time to add to the wish list (again...) I suppose . I was looking around online for the Harbor Freight surface grinders and best I can tell, they don't stock them anymore. Appears they off loaded the last ones a couple years ago for something around $300.00 (maybe to just get rid of them?). Too bad I wasn't in the market for one then...

I'm thinking I'll start off with a decent drill bit set since it's always nice to have those regardless of the type of knife being made. Plus, I could certainly use a few more size options than my current el-cheapo set offers me. I guess the good part about looking ahead and not really needing some of the tools now means I can keep an eye out and maybe get lucky and pick up something a little cheaper along the way.

Thanks again.

Jeremy

[Ed Caffrey]

Good to have both a numbered set, as well as a letter set of bits. Once you figure out the common sizes you use, I find it most cost effective to order those in cobalt, by the dozen (package quantity) from Enco....at least for the smaller sizes.

If you can swing it, one of the 115 piece sets in cobalt is really nice to have around....but they are kinda pricey.

Another tool that should be on your wish list is the top end "Drill Doctor" bit sharpener. It only works well for bit 3/16" and larger, but I'm on my 4th one now. That's been over a 10+ year time frame, and the last two, Drill Doctor has sent me for free, in exchange for a small written testimonial. The Drill Doctor has literally saved me THOUSANDS of dollars in drill bits. In fact I can still remember the very first one that Cindy got me for a Christmas gift.....that same afternoon I resharpened over $200 in bits.

Another MUST have is http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wall-Chart-S...item4605d41563

This is the same one I have on the wall of my shop. I took it to Staples, and for a few bucks had it laminated. The little ones that come with it are hanging on the big milling machine in the Blacksmith shop.