Quenching medium for 1095

[WBE]

Originally Posted by Rog

I have a Temco thats rated to 2000 ?, that I have never used. It came out of an old wear house someplace, a Nephew gave me and I do have a plug-in for it. So whats the soak time and temp for the 01? Would it be useful with the 1095 at all? And OK, I'm going to the grocery store for some oil. Was Goddard not a good knife maker (nut)? I guess anybody can write a book. Now Ill question everything. Iv'e read (on this site) that back tempering is way too iffy to use, by more than one person.

Try and be sure this oven has reasonably accurate controls. For the 01 it is good to have decarb protection, but not absolutely necessary. IF the 01 you have is precision ground, and you are NOT forging it, it is fairly simple to HT. Soak for 30/45 minutes at 1250?, then bring it up to 1475? and soak for 20 minutes. Quench in a medium fast oil heated to around 130/135?. Then temper from 400? to 450? depending on the desired hardness. Temper for two, two hour heats. I use Parks AAA oil, but most all of the vege or mineral oils should work, though may not be that much cheaper to buy than the Parks. ATF will work OK also, but the fumes may not be very healthy to breathe. As to what Doug said about HTing 01 in a forge. I did say a simple forge, meaning a simple open type, and not one rigged with heat chamber and temp gauges, which is still iffy as to final results. IMO, if your not getting the best from the 01, why pay the extra bucks for it? 10XX steels are much cheaper, easier to HT, with the exception of 1095, and will perform very well. 1084 with a decent HT, will out perform 1095 with a poor HT. As far as the edge quenching, as I said, the blade will be stronger if fully quenched, but if you want a hamon, you have no choice. If you just want a softer spine, back it off using a torch with the edge protected in water. If you are testing for the ABS, it my understanding that 5160 steel with an edge quench is the way to go. Even the ABS masters will tell you that is not a good heat treat, but they just want to see that you can do it successfully. Why? I have no idea.

[Rog]

Thanks much! I've been reading about parks 50, and AAA, and I'm confused by some differing suggestions I've read. Could you go into more detail on the use or differences of both?

[WBE]

Parks #50 is a fast cooling quench, usually reserved for 1095 and other 10XX steels. 10XX steels are basicly just carbon and iron with a tad bit of manganese to help them harden. Parks AAA is a medium speed quench for alloyed steels which might crack if cooled too rapidly, such as 01 and many others. 01 is made up of chrome, vanadium, tungsten, iron, and carbon basicly.

[Rog]

Thank's again.

[Doug Lester]

Rog, rember that there is no such thing as too much heat control when it comes to heat treating blades. Any blade steel will benefit from a regulated heat treating oven or a molten salt pot over a forge. It take the guess work out of how hot the steel is.

I think that your idea about the M2 is right on. Save it for smaller blades by stock removal, such as folders. Being that it came to you labeled M2 I wouldn't have any problems with thinking that that is what it is.

I will differ with WBE about edge quenching vs soft draw on the spine. Edge quenching will give the softest back as it allows pearlite to form in the spine instead of martensite. Pearlite will be tougher than martensetic steel reguardless of how far back you draw the temper. The only way to get rid of all the martensite would be to re-austinize the steel which would probably over come the heat sink and over temper the edge. Edge quenching will also work with steels that are too deep hardening for clay coating to work with.

Doug

[Rog]

I just had to find a way to use all this pretty stuff, glad to have the help. Could you recommend some books for reference on metallurgy, and heat treating, any books really that would help in the complete making of knives. Start to Finnish, and sheath making to. I don't know the authors like you guys.

[jdale]

I found a great one on metallurgy, best of all you can download it for free. The title is: Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths & Others
who Heat Treat and Forge Steel
This is where i got my copy
http://www.feine-klingen.de/PDFs/verhoeven.pdf

A few books i can recommend are:
The Wonder of Knifemaking by Wayne Goddard (the newest edition was released in 2010 or 2011)
Blade's Guide to Making Knives by Joe Kertzman
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way To Perfection by Jim Hrisoulas
Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel by Jim Hrisoulas

[Rog]

THANK YOU SO MUCH! Made the down load, and am reading now. Will be getting the books. I need this.

[Doug Lester]

Be advised that the link noted may violate the copyright on Steel Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist by that author once he sold it to ASM International for publication. From what I have seen of the work on that link, it's pretty much the same thing. Anyway, if you go ahead and buy the book, Mr. Verhoeven will get payed for all the hard work he put into it.

Another book that has be recommended by others here is Metallurgy Fundamentals. I'm certain that both are available from Amazon. Don't forget the used book market either. You not only may be able to get both of the above books used but I found a metallurgy text at Abe Books that ran me $4.95 delivered. Sure it was marked up and a bit dog eared but all the pages were there and not much has changed in basic metallurgy except for some of the manufacturing processes.

ASM International is also a good source of information. You will have to sign up but they have articles that you can download for a modest fee. They also sell data sheets for different steels which will save you from laying out about $350 for a book that lists a lot of steels that you will never use in knife making just to get information on a few that you are interested in.

Doug

[jdale]

Originally Posted by Doug Lester

Be advised that the link noted may violate the copyright on Steel Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist by that author once he sold it to ASM International for publication.

This quote below was in the books preface. This was the reason I downloaded it and give out the link instead of suggesting the purchase a hard copy.

"My professional career has been supported by publicly funded institutions.
Therefore, I grant any user copyright permission to download and print a copy of this
book for personal use or any teacher to do the same for their students."

[Doug Lester]

I am familiar with that preface. What you are ignoring is that it was writen before the the publication of the book by ASM International and may no longer be valid. Before the sale John Verhoeven had the authority to put the work out for public use without compensation. Once it was sold it became someone elses property and that consent for use becomes invalid. It's like saying that I had permission to hunt a piece of land and, even though it's been sold to someone else, I still have permission. Now I doubt that ASM International wants to spend time and money to track down anyone using this download but I would recommend that anyone wanting to use that document in a class or any presentation or republish it in any manner clarify with ASM International whether or not that document violates their copyright on the book.

Anyway, John Verhoeven spent a lot of time writing the manuscript for the book and he deserves his share of the proceeds of selling it. It sort of boils down to what is morally right. Verhoeven once put it out there for everone to use but he's made it into a book for sale. Be fair, buy the book.

Doug