first hamon not sure what went wrong

[cbr900son]

So I decided to try my first haon with some satanite on 1095. Put the clay about 2/3 of the way down the blade and this is what I got after I sanded to 1000 and etched a couple times. It is about a 1/4 inch from the edge of the blade. I wanted more like 1/2 inch back. Maybe I applied too much clay or something. Any suggestions?

[Ed Caffrey]

Hi Will!

I've looked at the images, and borrowed one/doctored it to hopefully help you out.

Looking at the initial images, there are a couple of possibilities...
1. The clay may have been applied too closely to the edge. With clay quenched blades, often times the "hamon" will not be located right at the edge of the clay, but depending on the steel type, clay used, and the "soak time", it can be from right on the clay line, to as much as 1/2" away.

2. Soak time....that's generally an ugly term to me, but when it comes to clay quenching, it's a necessity. From what I can see in the photos you posted, it's obvious that only the very edge of the blade (the thinnest areas) reached the correct heat, or were at the correct heat, when quenched. My thought is that you you were not accustom to the way the clay interacts with heat, and might not have allowed enough soak time.

Finally, I doctored up one of your pics, with roughly how I would apply clay to the blade.....

[ron58]

Soak time....that's generally an ugly term to me?is it that you don't like to leave the steel,or blade in to soak,or you don't like to use this term to describe it!

[Ed Caffrey]

I don't like leaving a blade in to "soak". Early on in my career, I listened to others about how I had to "let the blade soak for 3-5 mins".....as I became more educated, started understanding steel better, and started having steel spectrographed, I realized that in many cases, soaking was causing more harm than good.
Let me qualify that by stating it's relevant in relationship to the type of steel being heat treated....some required a soak, due to their composition(such as those with a high alloy content), but for the most part that does not apply to the steels that we consider "forge-able".
What I have discovered via spectrographing on most forge-able steels is that the grain growth "soaking" creates, overshadows the benefits that most relate to "soaking".

Of course there are ways around it. An example is 52100. It comes out wonderful with a soak of 5-6 mins, BUT that's at 1425-1450F....not the recommended austinizing temp of 1550F(which is the temp that most will/would use).... in my experience, not many folks understand that, nor can they wrap their heads around using a lower than recommended austinizing temp to avoid what I consider problems related to "soaking".

As it applies to this thread, although it may cause some issues, soaking is necessary to achieve the objective....in this case a hamon. While hamons are "cool" they are more "eye candy" than functional......and that's OK. It all boils down to attributes that each maker desires most. As I have said before, most everything we do in knifemaking is a "give-n-take" situation......we always have to give up something, to achieve something we desire. The trick is to understand that, and to not go too far either direction, and if you do, know and understand that one thing will often suffer for the sake of the other.

[Karl B. Andersen]

All of Ed's advice is spot on.
Two other aspects to remember when creating hamons, and especially with 1095 is the quenchant used.
Just about only 2 will do what you are attempting - brine or Parks 50. You need to get that heat sucked out of that blade FAST!!! and most other quenchants just don't cut it. Not with 1095/W1/W2.
Secondly, and this comes with experience, is that you need MORE than the area you want hardened to be up to temp. You need even a large portion of the area covered with clay to be as hot as the exposed area.
I have been doing hamons on a regular basis for 5 years and each and every knife is a challenge. You really need a LARGE quench tank, so you can immerse the entire blade at once. I use 5 gallons.
You really need a forge in which you have a great deal of control of temp.
Each blade will act differently depending upon thickness, length geometry, etc.
It's a dance, a ballet between you, the blade and the forge.
It's fun!

[cbr900son]

Well from looking at eds doctored photo I think i might have put the clay too close to the edge. I heat treated this at a hammer in in a oven with a controller so Im thinking I had the clay too close to the edge. Oh well this will be a learning experience. Will order some more steel and try again. For next attempt you think I should go with 1095 again or try w2? My son really wants a japanese tanto style knife and I wanted to learn and surprise him for a christmas present.

[GHEzell]

Originally Posted by cbr900son

Will order some more steel and try again. For next attempt you think I should go with 1095 again or try w2?

It depends on where you are getting your steel. Not all 1095 is equal, some (most?) of the stuff that is sold as 1095 is not what I consider cutlery grade steel. As for W2, I only know of 2 places to get it, and both have reliable, good steel. The W2 Aldo has is some great stuff (his 1095 is nice and clean too) but requires an extremely fast quench to reach full hardness... canola won't work, you need parks 50 or brine (I would suggest parks 50 or brine for any W2 or 1095). Don Hanson was also selling W2 in the form of big rounds, and it is also good stuff... I'm not sure if he is still selling it.

If the edge is still thick (1mm or more, IMO), you could normalize it a few times and quench it again.

[ron58]

thanks guys,the reason i asked is i read about a lot of heat treating and most say that you should leave the blade in for 14 minutes at 1500 to 1550 to homogenize the steel!so this is bunk,right?

[cbr900son]

Yeah i decided from now aldo only. Its got a real good thickness on the edge. Might try to re heat treat and see

[Woodchuck Forge]

Try your re HT. use much less clay than you might think. I have been using less than .062 per side. It does not take that much to slow the quench down. The thickness of your steel can have an effect also. Keep the clay well away from the edge, I keep it at or above 1/2 the width except the ashi lines. And +1 to Karl on the quenchant to use if you are looking for the smoky active Hamon.

Hamons are more difficult and addictive than damascus. When you get our first one to turn out like you want it will be all over. You will be hooked.