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The Business of Knife Making A forum dedicated to all aspects of running, managing and legal operational issues relating to the custom knife making and custom knife selling industry.

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  #1  
Old 06-30-2002, 10:15 AM
Raymond Richard's Avatar
Raymond Richard Raymond Richard is offline
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Location at knife shows......

I've done the last three OKCA Knife Shows with few to no sales period. This is ranked as the largest show West of the Mississippi. I'm thinking it is to big. My thoughts are if your on the back half of the show the majority of the customers have already purchased what their wanting and leave or just leave cause there overwhelmed with the size of the show. I'm ready to pull out unless I can get a table in the first half.

Is it just me or does this really happen?


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  #2  
Old 07-01-2002, 11:25 AM
Jason G Howell Jason G Howell is offline
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The top makers take a large percentage of the sales and the rest of the makers share the rest. Position in the room is important, but not everything to make a good show for you. I've never been to the show, but I've shown at Blade since 1998 and have never had a "BAD" show. As long as I sell a couple of knives, pay for my table next year, I'm good with that. I go to these shows with a goal of getting exposure and visiting with knife enthusiasts and other makers. I have made a lot of friends at shows and learn something new that I can put to work in my shop when I get home. In Atlanta, I started in the sanding belts and have moved up to 19L. I like my table now and once you get established in a spot, collectors look for you there. If someone really, really wants one of your knives, they'll find you anyway. Just let your work speak for itself and move up when you can, but when you find a great spot, stick with it. Take care and good luck next time.


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  #3  
Old 07-02-2002, 10:31 PM
fisk fisk is offline
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Raymond
In my opinion if a person is not selling anything it gets down to the very basic one of two things.
1. You are not delivering what the customers want or
2. Your price is not inline for what you are offering.
Now there are many variables of the above two statements but that is the basic thoughts I have always applied to myself.
If you want a detailed run down on this more let me know on this forum if you wish or I can keep my opinions to myself if you prefer. I will be happy to do either.
jf


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  #4  
Old 07-03-2002, 07:58 AM
Sam Wereb
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80/20 Rule?

How much of this is governed by the universal 80/20 rule, that covers all of sales, and salesmanship?
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2002, 08:32 PM
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Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Hi Raymond,

Both Jason and Mr. Fisk are correct.

I was once at a show...in a square ball room and had a maker tell me that he didn't sell any knives. His reason...he was facing a wall. Well everyone in that square room was facing a wall.

You know Knife Makers can be funny (funny funny not "ha ha" funny).

Actually, Jerry and I were talking about this after the Blade Show.

At every show you will go to you will find makers who sell out, some who do pretty good and some who don't sell a thing.

Location at a show helps mostly after you have been doing the show for a few years. As Jason pointed out, customers now know where your table is located.

However, I agree with Jerry 100% that the correct "product mix" for a particular show is much more important than your table location.

Example:

Las Vegas Classic Knife Show, Feb 2002. I have attended the show for all 10 years. The show went from the Flamingo Hilton to the Palace Station Hotel and then to the Riviera. On the plus side the room set up remained very similar between the Palace Station and the Riviera, until this year.

This year the show moved to the Penthouse. As you walked through the doors my table was all the way into the back left hand corner. My back was to the room and I looked out the window (which was really cool at night).

If you belive in table location affecting your show. I guess I would have to say that having what most people would consider a crappy table location is the best thing to have. I had the best (sales wise) LVCKS I ever had.

Personally, I attribute this great show to having been at the show for so many years. Having built up a client base that comes that show and putting together what appeared to be an excellent product mix. I sold knives from 8 different categories of knives.

Presentation Folder, Damascus Folders, Tactical Folders and Auto Folders.

Tactical Fixed blades, Presentation Fixed blades, Hunters and Forged blades.

Obviously one advantage a dealer has over a maker in this area is the fact that we can have so many different categories of knives. Couple that with the knives on the table being made by some of the best makers in the world.....and that is a fairly potent combination.

However, as a maker you can replicate some of this by having a very diverse selection of knives on your table. Diverse in styles, materials and price ranges.

Give the collector every opportunity to buy your knife.

Hope this helps.

Jerry,

Actually it's my forum. You sir are allowed to give your very knowledgeable opinon any time you would like.

There is not a person on CKD that could not learn something from you and I include myself in that group.


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  #6  
Old 07-04-2002, 08:49 AM
Jason G Howell Jason G Howell is offline
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yeah, what he said.


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  #7  
Old 07-05-2002, 08:31 AM
cactusforge cactusforge is offline
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Yes Jerry. we at CKD need and want to hear more from you. Gib


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  #8  
Old 07-07-2002, 08:43 PM
fisk fisk is offline
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blush blush. Now you guys got me embrassed. I will be glad to help out no more than I know. The secret really is just listening to Les, Paul Baush, Amy and your clients. But just let me know. I will check in on Les's fourm on occasions if I can help. The reason this is where I will check in is it also where I will keep up with things and learn more.
jf


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  #9  
Old 07-08-2002, 10:09 AM
cactusforge cactusforge is offline
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Jerry, Thanks for the repley but please give the other fourms a look I am suer that you can help out on knife making items like forging, finishing and handel work as well. Don't be bashfull.
Thanks Gib


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  #10  
Old 09-10-2002, 04:10 PM
Dana Acker Dana Acker is offline
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Other Factors

What about slow shows in general as being a reason for low to no sales? At the Winston Salem show, I spoke with many a maker who said they sold little to nothing this year. For some reason, economic or otherwise, people just weren't laying down the cash in large numbers this past weekend. That doesn't mean there were no sales, but even Bill Maynard, when offering the evening's invocation at the banquet Saturday night, prayed for "a better day tomorrow." I've talked with makers who told me that they've attended certain shows one year and sold out, only to return the next year and not sell enough to cover their table. "Some days you eat the bear, and some days the bear eats you" seems to be at play here as well.

Another thing on location. I've never done the Blade show as a vendor. However, I've attended as a spectator and customer. I'll have to admit, by the time I got to the way back of the hall, I was tired, burned out at looking at knives, and almost broke (as to my spending budget.) Those guys at the back were just out of luck when it came to me, and at no fault of their own. In certain cases (like that one) I feel location is important, but at the same time, everybody cannot be at the front. Those who have been there more years get the better spots, and deservedly so. Fair is fair. One has to pay their dues. But that doesn't change the fact that the closer to the front of the Blade show one is located, the better one's chances are of catching the attention of those attending. However, not all shows are the Blade show. At the Winston Salem show, the hall was small enough to give all a decent location, and access to all who attended. I think it's relative to the show.

Also at a show that has a number of better known makers, lesser known makers can only reasonably expect that the bulk of attention is going to go to those better known makers, and quite possibly the bulk of the money. Using my own example from above, when I attended the Blade show, I was primarily looking for certain makers' work who I had read about or seen before. Advertising and peridocal publicity are indeed important factors

That said, Les' book is a must to read before anyone attempts to enter the knife business with the expectation of making money at it. "If you build it they will come," only seems to work in "Field of Dreams." There's a lot of hard work and doing what works that must be taken into account and practiced religiously.

And the things Jerry pointed out above are very important factors that cannot be discounted. If I go to a Mt. Man rendezvous with a table full of high dollar, high tech tactical folders, I really cannot complain if my sales are lousy.


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  #11  
Old 09-17-2002, 10:41 AM
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Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Hi Dana,

First let me say that I think sales have slowed for many at shows due to a number of factors:

1) Amount of shows in the US. The customer base that attends each show has been diluted.

2) Lack of flying. Not from fear but from not wanting to deal with the hassle of check in and security. For many if the show is not within driving distance, the collector is not going.

3) Ease of purchase on the Internet. This is especially for overseas buyers. The money they save not travelling to the US can be put towards the purchase of more knives.

4) Contraction of the custom knife market. I belive that collectors are re-assessing as to who they buy their knives from. As many collectors are now learning the harsh lessons of the what the aftermarket has to offer.

The exception to this are the niche markets, such as yours, Dan Winkler, Errett Callahan, Virgil England, to name a few.

Also, you have accurately pointed out that while your knives might sell a little slower at a mainstream show. Were I to set up at a Mt. Man rendezvous I would have to expect very slow or no sales.

As you know I have a fairly good selection of knives. When you look at my table and my buddy Bob Neal's table who sets up next to me at every show we attend. Well, between the two of us we offer about the best selection of custom knives that two tables can give.

At the SECK Show, I sold 6 knives and Bob sold 2. As you know our tables were on the side wall. A position that many would not consider favorable.

Now at the Spirit of Steel Show, for the first time ever in 15 years of attending shows. My table was the first table you saw when you looked through the door. Once again Bob was next to me.
Now I admit, I forgot to bring my folders. However, Bob had over 80 on his table so that area was covered.

There I was with the premire spot. What did this do for me? I sold 4 knives. Had I brought the folders I may have sold 1 or 2 more.

Attendance for this years SOS Show was up substantially over last year.

So logically, with a better table position and increased attendance, why were my sales down from last year at this show?

A couple of reasons, first the aforementioned lack of folders. Also, because of consistently improving internet sales I am offering fewer knives on my table each year (I know boo hoo). Bob had 3 times as many knives on his table and sold 7 knives.

Compare this to the 2001 SECKS where Bob and I each did over $5,000 in sales. We were in the same location, same table, same time of year.

Compare this to my 1999 SECKS where I did not sell a single knife. This is the only show in 12 years that I did not sell a single knife at. Again, same table, same location, same time of year.

I attribute either a good show or a bad show to my product mix.

Tommy McNabb and his crew put on a great little show. It is pleasureable for both the table holders and the customers. However, it is consistently my slowest selling show, except of 2001. This year was my second best show sales wise.

Bruce Voyles, is obviously a master promoter. His SOS Show had the unfortunate circumstance of happening just days after 9/11 last year.

This year the show was much better attended. Bruce moved the show from Thursday - Saturday to a Friday through Sunday. Bruce if your listening I would like to see the show become a 2 day show, Friday and Saturday.

Bruce is looking at moving the show closer to Dallas metro area. I think this would help the show as well.

Having promoted a few custom knife shows, Im probably a little more sympathetic about shows than most.

The best thing I can say about table location is try and keep the same table position year in and out. That will help your customers find you.

Lastly buying several copies of the "Custom Knife Buying Guide" can't hurt!


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