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  #1  
Old 01-07-2003, 05:17 PM
Jeff Pelz Jeff Pelz is offline
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Traveling with cutlery

Hello Mr. Robertson,

Could you give me your thoughts on traveling with cutlery(Collections or Custom knife makers pieces) to shows or exhibits.
Via air travel. With unlocked luggage, what can we do to prevent our investment from disappearing. With few options, what can be done? Not wanting to drive my automobile, or take the bus, to distant events.

Jeff Pelz
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2003, 08:34 AM
Les Robertson's Avatar
Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Georgia
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Hi Jeff,

Good to see you again this weekend. As I explained to Jeff in Vegas, I thought I would wait until I had travelled until I posted a response.

I flew out of Atlanta (supposedly the busiest airport in the US if not the world).

I flew Air West. I checked in at the counter. My bags were tagged and put on the conveyor belt and taken down below.

I did not lock my bags. I did however put black duct tape over the locks (to keep them from popping open) and one of those Samsonite locking straps around the bag. Again not locked, but put the black duct tape around the the place where the two ends connect.

Inside the suitcase each knife was put into an individual padded case. Then these were put into a black ballastic nylon bag. My thinking was to keep the knives from falling all over the place should someone open the luggage.

This bag featured two zippers and a velcro closure.

All this extra bags and zippers had an additional purpose. Since the inspectors are primarily looking for explosives and explosive residue. They would have to have a pretty good reason to open the bag. Additionally, once inside, it would take at least a little while to open the first bag, then the second bag and then each individual knife case.

I would think if someone was trying to steal something it would become fairly obvious to others around them and on the video tape.

Additionally, inside the bag was a full inventory of what was in that bag, my business card and a show flyer for the Las Vegas Classic Knife show.

I wanted to do two things. First, let whoever was opening the bag know, that I was attending a trade show. This would answer their first question as to "Why all the knives".

Second, let whoever was opening the bag know that everything that was in the bag was accounted for. If something did come up missing, there would be some explaining to do.

As far as I can tell, both from Atlanta and back to Atlanta my bags were not opened.

I did hear that Bud Nealy had a knife stolen out of his bag. I talked to a couple of other makers who said they got to watch their bags being inspected and then could have them locked after that. The one airport I remember this happened at was Nashville. I belive Louisvill KY was the other one.

I belive if you do have something stolen you can file a complaint with the TSA. However, you have to have proof that you put it in the bag.

I had every knife on the web site that was in my bag. The new ones I bought at the show I had a receipt for.

Additionally, I could provide receipts for any of knives if the they would have been stolen.

Makers are in a little different situation. One of my recommendations was to take a picture of the knives lying on a copy of your local newspaper (with the date in focus). Put that in your bag, with your inventory and business card.

Also, this will be a record of the knife that you can provide to the local police department, insurance company and the TSA.

My next show I fly to is the East Coast Custom Knife Show in New York.

This time I will be flying out of Augusta Regional Airport (Georgia) and flying into LaGuardia in New York.

I will be curious to see the difference's between the regional and major airports.

Anyone else have any recent experiences of flying with knives?


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  #3  
Old 01-29-2003, 01:00 PM
J.R. Fraps J.R. Fraps is offline
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Les,
1.)I flew RT from Indianapolis to Detroit to New York to Sau Palo, to Manaus, Brazil last FEb. Regarding the part of the trip coming home where I had purchased 7 small machetes (approx 14" blade)and packed it in the check through bag along with a bunch of very valuable fly fishing equipment.
, My bag was inspected in Sau Palo, Brazil, by very, very courteous individuals, and in my presence. They then allowed me to lock the bag and they put some very sticky tape over the lock that couldn't be removed without obviously tearing the tape.

I retrieved my bag in NY and went through Customs without opening it but having it x-rayed. I was told not to untape the lock on the bag but to take it to the domestic carrier and check it through, which was done. It arrived home, same time I did, unmolested (the bag and me too).

2) Flew to Atlanta for the BLADE Show via Delta..Knives all in bag, bag locked. No problems, no hassles with the checked bag, either direction.

3. Flew th Baltimore Washington Intl. (Indianapolis to Cincinnati to Baltimore round trip.) for the Chesapeake Show via Delta again. I carried on the bag with clothes etc. and checked through the new pistol case I purchased to ship knives through...never will put a gun in that particular case. The case was bright aluminum finish, was marked on the outside with my name, address, phone number, etc. Also I asked and received a PRIORITY sticker for the case as it HAD to get ther by Dec 7 for the one day Dec 8 Show.
Short story is I arrived approx noon on Dec 7th. My case arrived via courrier from the arline at midnight Dec 7th. Reason given was that there were a number of U.S. military folks shipping out. via Cinn to Baltimore, each had a backpack and 3 large duffles...headed overseas for a year or more.....we were on 1 of those 50 passenge regional jets....military luggage got priority over civilian luggage....about 10-15 of us civilians had our check-through luggage bumped....that is hard to argue with, given the reason.
The knife case did arrive at my hotel at approx. midnight, and had not apparently been opened...it had 2 locked latches that were not "messed with" .
I've got to admit that since the TSA took over the operations at the airports, they are MUCH more courteous, and act MUCH more professional than some of the "Yahoos"that were mixed in with some competent folks, that operated at Indpls Int Airport pre-TSA.
I ran into some real "corkers" in Little Rock, Ark and Cincinnati as well , prior to TSA taking over but after 9-11.
It will be interesting to return to these locations and see whether TSA has improved operations there as much as they did here.

I still believe that not allowing us to carry personal pocket knives on flights, or anywhere else, is probably in direct conflict with our 2nd ammendment rights....(no I am not an attorney). I also believe that if every "honest American" on domestic flights were armed at least by a 3-4" folding lockable blade and were trained to use it, that even if some crazies like those doing 9-11, took out a few, that they would not be able to take over a plane again.

Flight 93 might have made it to a landing, had the brave souls on that flight been armed when those famous words were spoken,
"Let's Roll".

Stay Safe,


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  #4  
Old 01-30-2003, 10:04 AM
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Gary Mulkey Gary Mulkey is offline
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I flew to the Wolverine Show just last week, my first contact with the new regulations. My departure airport (being small) was not equipted with xray and the search consisted of the agents running their sensors down the inside corners of each bag and nothing else. After the inspection I locked both cases.

At Detroit they were obviously xraying the bags but since I was pushed on time, did not stay to watch the inspection but rather asked the agent to spin the combination lock on each case after inspection which was done. The inspection must have been brief since I went directly to the gate, getting there barely in time for the flight and my baggage got aboard as well.

I did have show flyers atop the protective pouches for the knives but wasn't asked anything about the contents. I talked briefly with one inspector who stated that the only things they were concerned with were explosive materials.

Gary
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2003, 04:29 PM
Wulf Wulf is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Vermont
Posts: 249
I flew from Jacksonville to Burlington, VT via Philly this past November.

When I unpacked I noticed that my favorite knife, a Stellite fixed blade by Neil Blackwood, was gone.

I'm still furious about that because this knife will be very difficult to replace and it had sentimental value.

I had placced it in a side pocket of a duffelbag. Next time I travel with knives I'll be sure to take greater precautions.


By the way - here's a pic of the knife:



Edited 2/12/03 to add: I found the knife. It had merely been misplaced (wrapped up in a plastic shopping bag along with some fishing gear). Although embarrassed by my folly, I am quite relieved to have the knife once again in my posession. I guess I've learned not one, but two lessons from this.


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Last edited by Wulf; 02-12-2003 at 07:42 AM.
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2003, 04:41 PM
whv whv is offline
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that's a real pi$$er, dick, especially since niel hasn't been taking orders lately.
i hope that at least you were insured for double what you paid for it


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  #7  
Old 02-01-2003, 09:24 AM
Les Robertson's Avatar
Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Location: Georgia
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Hi Guys,

First, lets talk about knives and travelling 2003. As security is now run by the TSA.

Part of this turn over included the firing of several thouasnd former security agents for numerous reasons.

Next, if you have a knife (or anything else) removed from your bag. You need to file a complaint with the TSA and the local police department.

This should be done for several reasons.

First, if you have insurance they require a police report.

Second, once you have filed a police report, should the knife be recovered. You then have grounds to claim your knife. Although, you will in most cases have to wait until the trial is over.

Lastly, once your knife is stolen. You can send pictures to the knife community to look out for the knife. This is especially important if the knife is unique or has a distinctive logo or serial number (i.e. the Vanguard knives).

Guys we have to be proactive. This may mean travelling with receipts and photo's of the knives. So you can file police reports and reports with the TSA immediately. There is a good chance the thief is still on shift or just gotten off of it.

Maybe several people were ripped off that day and a pattern has emerged.

Personally, I think the TSA is going to have a hard time justifying un-locked luggage if people keep getting ripped off. As such I suspect they come down very hard on those that are singled out.

So make it tough on them....file the report!


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  #8  
Old 02-06-2003, 02:09 AM
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Kevin Wilkins Kevin Wilkins is offline
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Never put things of value in those outside zipper pockets on bags! They can be quickly opened and cleaned out. A good trick is to put some dirty socks in there and dont lock the pocket! Let em steal those!

One good trick for bags is to buy some of those industrial cable ties, the ones you have to cut with a cutting pliers to get off, and use those to keep any zippers or other locks from being opened. These cable ties are impossible to open by hand and if they are pulled tight and the tail cut off, tea are almost impossible to open with a knife. Not many baggage guys have a cutting pliers in their pocket... another good advantage ist that when you retrieve your baggage, you can instantly see if any of the cable ties are missing, if they are immedaitely demand to know why your bags were opened and check the contents right there at the airport. Be sure and have some extra cable ties in your bag, so you can relock it on the return trip!

Using tape over the locks is also good. I often use heavy strapping tape to go all the way around the bag, another good way to tell if it's been opened too. A few other tips:

1. never buy expensive luggage, it tells people you have money and the bags have expensive stuff in them. I like good quality hard case luggage like Samsonite etc. Good but not flashy. By it used too. Looks like you are a poor ass MoFo who has nothing of value... this is true in my case! ;-)

2. Put a few big stickers on the bag that others arent likely to have, that way when your bag comes up, you'll see it at once. I want some of those "Human blood transport! Handle with care" stickers myself... they wont open that one!!! ;-)

I have never had anything stolen in all the years I have travelled. Knock on wood.

Best almost stolen story:

Was flying from NYC to Dallas (DFW) and had a Sig Sauer pistol in a small Haliburton case ( this was in the 80's before I wised up). I declared the gun at the counter in NY and they insisted on putting that "gun inside" sticker on the outside of the case.

So I get to Dallas and all my luggage is there EXCEPT the gun case! It'll get here say the airline folks so we go on over to my parents house ( it was late at night.)

Next day call the airport and still no gun. Dont worry they say! I say, that the gun is registered to me and I have ####### for it in NYC and am required by law to report its theft immedately to the NYPD and the BATF, further that I will report it stolen by the airline. ah, wait a second says the airline man on the phone, gimme a minute. About 10 minutes later he calls back, We have your case. It JUST turned up! A f***ing miricle! So my father drives me out to the airport and this bastard bagge supervisor has it in his office. Man, were we mad. That guy should be glad guns must be transported unloaded!

After that I ALWAYS put the case with the gun INSIDE anothe case... still declaired of course.


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  #9  
Old 02-26-2003, 11:58 PM
Dingfod Dingfod is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Wilkins

2. Put a few big stickers on the bag that others arent likely to have, that way when your bag comes up, you'll see it at once. I want some of those "Human blood transport! Handle with care" stickers myself... they wont open that one!!! ;-)]
I'm not sure I'd do that! I have a Pelican case for my cameras, onto which I pasted a sticker saying, "Handle with care, contains Toxic or Hazardous Waste". It has gotten me pulled off to the side and searched on more than one occasion... guess it's just spite that has kept me from peeling it off...
(I got the sticker when I was young, foolish, and working in the Health & Safety department.)

Best wishes,
Ron
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2003, 05:39 PM
John McPherson John McPherson is offline
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Airport confiscations on Ebay

Ever wonder what happens to all of those good knives? Cash strapped governments going into business as dealers.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...28/BA64041.DTL
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