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  #1  
Old 04-27-2004, 08:08 AM
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Mammoth Ivory

Les, what's your current take on the Mammoth Ivory scales? I ask this because: 1. a lot of makers are still using it, and: 2. You mentioned recently that Girraff (sp?) bone may be out for the time being, and I'm wondering what may be "in".
Thanks!


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Old 04-27-2004, 08:57 AM
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Hi Robert,

Mammoth and Mastodon Ivory are always "in". The more colors the better.

The question becomes does the use of Ivory add too much value to the knife.

Decent size scales will run $125 (+/- a few bucks). There is also the extra time it takes to cut and drill the Ivory. If the knife with these materials can still be sold for an extra $175 then consider using it.

Regardng Giraffe bone, now that they have stopped impregnating it with those ugly pastel colors it is starting to gain more acceptance. Ive seen some pieces that looked similar to Mastodon Ivory.

Another handle material to consider is Sheep Horn. Fairly inexpensive, easy to find in different sizes and looks great.

A wood from Australia, Ring Gidgee, is starting to get a lot of use by the ABS guys.

Blonde Desert Ironwood is always a good choice.

Hope this helps.


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Old 04-27-2004, 09:36 AM
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Les,

I've had Mastodon Ivory crack, I've read its properties are no different that those of Elephant Ivory, and thus I've stayed away from both (the exception being flat inserts in handles). Of course, living out west as I do is a known risk factor for that kind of thing. It's remarkable how much stag shrinks (but I haven't experienced cracking - yet). Guess I may ultimately have to use a humidifier if I really want to lower the risk of cracking.

But my question along these lines is about the Giraffe bone - where do you think it fits in the continuum of tusk, bone, horn and antler as regards the probability of cracking in dryer climates?

I understand there are variables: stabilized/impregnated vs. untreated, care in drying after being harvested or removed from the ground etc., orientation of the grain along the handle, slab/scale applied to a full tang vs. cut-down tang through the center etc.

Thanks in advance for your comments!
Buddy


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Old 04-27-2004, 01:04 PM
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Hi Buddy,

As a big fan of natural handle materials I have regrettably come to the conclusion that ALL NATURAL MATERIALS can shrink, and will do so given the right combination of circumstances.

Having said that, I think giraffe bone is supposed to be pretty dense and stable stuff that should prove more durable than the ivories if the variables that you mentioned are resolved in your favour. Not sure how it compares to stag.

rhrocker - speaking of mammoth ivory, I agree that it is very "in" and a very premium material to have on a knife. Some of the colours you can see are truly amazing. I have what I think is a pretty exceptional piece of the stuff on one of my knives by Bailey Bradshaw - exceptional because of it's creamy-white colour and of the size of the sample that allowed for a carved hidden-tang handle:





The benefit of this knife where shrinkage is concerned is it's take-down construction - if the ivory should shrink a little, a slight turn of the pommel will snug up any gap that results.

Cheers,

Roger
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Old 04-27-2004, 01:17 PM
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Hi Buddy,

The best looking Mastodon and Walrus Ivory are cracked. This is what allows the minerals to gain access to the Ivory.

Blue Color= Phosphates
Green=Copper
Pink= Gold
Browns - Black is from exposure to the elements.

As Roger pointed out, all natural handle material will expand and contract. The Mastodon Ivory you should be using should start at around 25,000 years old. That will eliminate much of the shrinkage.

Many of the cracks that form in Ivory are due directly to the handle construction method the maker chose.

For best results with Ivory, both the maker and the ultimate buyer have to do what they can to keep the Ivory in a stable environment.

Regarding Giraffe bone, I have no idea of how it works or holds up. I have never bought a knife with it as a handle material.

Personally, I don't think that makers have been using it long enough for a long term assessment. However, Im sure there are some that can answer your questions about working it and collectors who can tell you if it expands or contracts. I think most of it that it is used has been stabilized.

Nice Knife Roger!


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Old 04-27-2004, 01:35 PM
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Les, Buddy, and Roger, thanks a lot for the input. I've been buying a little bit of the mammonth ivory, as has a friend of mine also on the forums. It's starting to get higher and higher in price (as is everything). I wanted to hear from the experts that I'm on the right track here. I appreciate the info guys! Looks like I'll add a couple of other species to the "scales box"!


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Old 04-27-2004, 08:37 PM
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Les,

Do you think different ivories have different values? E.g., elephant vs. walrus vs. mastodon? (I'm not sure if there's a difference between mastodon and mammoth...)

JD


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Old 04-28-2004, 06:35 AM
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Hi Joss,

Probably female Fossil Walrus Ivory is the most desireable. This is due to how solid the tusk is. There is a hole found in tusks for the nerve. Female tusks are generally smaller and appear to need a smaller nerve.

Fossil Walrus generally comes in more colors (Ive had pieces that were chocolate brown and some almost black).

Generally, because they are so solid they are not used for folders scales.

Mastodon has rings to it. The inner section is basically worthless. Most of what is used is the outside of the tusk. As the inside most times appears to be nothing more than an off white Elephant Ivory.

I know Elephant Ivory is still used by makers. It is especially striking with blued fittings. International shipping problems have slowed things down. Also, while it was the favored handle material in the mid 80s to mid 90's. It appears to have lost favor and Walrus and Mastodon have replaced it.


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Old 04-28-2004, 06:37 PM
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Here's a cracked Mammoth Ivory scale.

Roger, You know I have a seizure every time I see pictures of that beautiful Bailey Bradshaw knife. Should the Mammoth Ivory handle ever crack, don't tell me - not sure I could handle the news.
Les, Thanks for all the good information you put into this thread. I've learned a ton reading your posts over time. Really appreciate it!
BT
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Old 04-28-2004, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Les, Thanks for all the good information you put into this thread. I've learned a ton reading your posts over time. Really appreciate it!
Hear Hear! Absolutley! Many thanks Les!


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Old 04-28-2004, 08:57 PM
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Buddy, that picture should come with a "viewer discretion advised" warning - yikes! Not good.

Great info as always Les, thanks.

Roger
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:43 PM
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Les, this has been such an informative thread, I wanted to check on something else: Mammoth Tooth Scales. Not all that expensive, yet I see very few knives with it. Is this because of the lack of visual appeal, or is there a design or stability consideration?


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Old 04-29-2004, 07:20 PM
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First, let me thank you for the kind words.

Buddy, when you drill the holes for the Ivory make them ever so slightly bigger than the pins. This will not be visible to the naked eye. However, it will allow the ivory to move around the pins.


Rh, the only maker I know who is successfully using the mammoth tooth on a regular basis is Schuyler Lovestrand. They make beautiful handles, however they have to be stablized. The dentene (soft part between the grooves in the tooth) will fall apart as soon as you touch it.

Once it's stabalized, work it SLOW.


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Old 04-29-2004, 07:39 PM
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Thanks Les. I guess that since only one person is using them, there must not be a huge demand for knives with tooth scales. Hadn't thought about the stuff falling apart. Think I'll stick with the regular mammoth bark ivory until something changes my mind.


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