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  #1  
Old 07-27-2012, 08:25 AM
andrewj1398 andrewj1398 is offline
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Electric Motor

I know there have been a ton of questions about electric motors and what will and wont work. But I came across this motor the other day, It is an old air compressor motor 110.

DOERR 1HP electric motor OFF a Horizontal tank Compressor.
LR22132
3.6/1.8 amps
230/460 VHZ60
1Horse power,3 Phase,1725 rpm.

I could pick it up for around $50.00. Is this a good motor to use with a Coote grinder to start out with? And what is your opinion on motors from northern tool, tractor supply and Harbor Freight?

Thanks for your time!
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2012, 08:59 AM
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That will work IF your work space is wired for 3 phase 240. . .otherwise you'll have a $50 door stop.


Cheap is great as long as it does not end up costing you more in the long run. In other words, you don't want to buy a cheap motor and then find out you need to have an electrician come out to make it work.

Coote recommends 1 HP, 1725 rpm. TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) is best to keep debris out for longer life. Continuous duty will allow you to grind longer at a session. Reversible (CW/CCW) is nice if you ever want it, or to provide you more options for motor position. Make sure you find a motor with a shaft long enough to accomodate a step pulley. A shaft that will accept a key will provide more positive traction on your drive pulley than one that takes a set screw.

You'll need to know what your electrical system is capable of (voltage & amperage, as well as wire rating), then shop from there.
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2012, 09:22 AM
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As NJ said, that's a 3 phase motor and I'm pretty close to positive you don't have 3 phase power at your house. You would need a 3 phase converter to make it work and that is fairly big bucks. On top of that, it's a compressor motor. Compressors are designed for intermittent duty and, again as NJ said, you want a motor that can run all day long.

Motors from Northern tool should be fine. Tractor supply I don't know, HF probably OK but definitely the bottom of my list. Grizzly has an excellent inventory of motors at good prices and they are first class motors.

You may have a hard time finding a motor with enough shaft on it to accommodate a step pulley. In that case, add a pillow block to the system.

Have you looked into an entry level KMG to check the prices yet? You're getting into that price range and then some ...


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  #4  
Old 07-27-2012, 09:30 AM
andrewj1398 andrewj1398 is offline
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[QUOTE=NJStricker;444039]That will work IF your work space is wired for 3 phase 240. . .otherwise you'll have a $50 door stop.


Cheap is great as long as it does not end up costing you more in the long run. In other words, you don't want to buy a cheap motor and then find out you need to have an electrician come out to make it work.

Coote recommends 1 HP, 1725 rpm. TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) is best to keep debris out for longer life. Continuous duty will allow you to grind longer at a session. Reversible (CW/CCW) is nice if you ever want it, or to provide you more options for motor position. Make sure you find a motor with a shaft long enough to accomodate a step pulley. A shaft that will accept a key will provide more positive traction on your drive pulley than one that takes a set screw.

You'll need to know what your electrical system is capable of (voltage & amperage, as well as wire rating), then shop from there.[/QUOTE

I saw the 3 phase part as well but the guy swears it is 110 with just white, black and ground wires. I think I am going to look at it and see it run before I buy.
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  #5  
Old 07-27-2012, 09:40 AM
andrewj1398 andrewj1398 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
As NJ said, that's a 3 phase motor and I'm pretty close to positive you don't have 3 phase power at your house. You would need a 3 phase converter to make it work and that is fairly big bucks. On top of that, it's a compressor motor. Compressors are designed for intermittent duty and, again as NJ said, you want a motor that can run all day long.

Motors from Northern tool should be fine. Tractor supply I don't know, HF probably OK but definitely the bottom of my list. Grizzly has an excellent inventory of motors at good prices and they are first class motors.

You may have a hard time finding a motor with enough shaft on it to accommodate a step pulley. In that case, add a pillow block to the system.

Have you looked into an entry level KMG to check the prices yet? You're getting into that price range and then some ...
I did look into the KMG at Beaumont metal works and the motors and pulls are sold separately. I might have looked at it wrong but it looked like almost 1000.00 before a motor and pulleys. I definitely like the concept of the KMG. Grizzly sells this motor G2532 Motor 1 HP Single-Phase 1725 RPM TEFC 110V/220V for $139.95. Is this good? It looks like unless you buy a grizzly you have to buy a motor for any grinder.
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  #6  
Old 07-27-2012, 10:27 AM
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I think you're right about the prices but you may get closer to $1000 with the Coote than you think. If you can stretch the budget into a low end KMG you'll have much better upward mobility with it. Eventually, you'll probably buy a 3 wheel grinder anyway to get the accessories so if you can stretch now you'll save money in the long run by buying one grinder instead of two. On the other hand, nearly all of us have at least two grinders.

Yes, that's a good motor. I would suggest that you go a little further and get a 1.5 or 2 hp motor if you can though. Many of us make do with 1 hp and you can get by with that just fine most of the time but I think all of us have wished we had a bit more from time to time ...


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 07-27-2012 at 10:30 AM.
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  #7  
Old 07-27-2012, 10:54 AM
andrewj1398 andrewj1398 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
I think you're right about the prices but you may get closer to $1000 with the Coote than you think. If you can stretch the budget into a low end KMG you'll have much better upward mobility with it. Eventually, you'll probably buy a 3 wheel grinder anyway to get the accessories so if you can stretch now you'll save money in the long run by buying one grinder instead of two. On the other hand, nearly all of us have at least two grinders.

Yes, that's a good motor. I would suggest that you go a little further and get a 1.5 or 2 hp motor if you can though. Many of us make do with 1 hp and you can get by with that just fine most of the time but I think all of us have wished we had a bit more from time to time ...
Man so many choices and money! Maybe I should play it save and get a grizzly get my toes wet and go from there. What do you think about that? What did you do when you first started?
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2012, 11:56 AM
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My first 3 knives were made with a vice, a drill press, a hack saw, and files and sandpaper. They were ATS-34 steel, and I sent them off to Texas Knife Supply for heat treat.

Keep in mind that a grinder and motor is just the start of the expenses.

You'll need to set aside some of your budget for a variety of belts and several grits of sandpaper.

If you don't have a way to heat treat, you'll spend money on postage, return postage, and heat treat fees.

Unless you decide to go with locally obtained hardwoods, you'll need to reserve some of your budget for handle material.

Then there is also leather or kydex plus hardware and tooling for sheaths.

Don't forget to budget for a good supply of steel so you can keep practicing.

The cost of a grinder and motor is just the tip of the iceberg.
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2012, 12:18 PM
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Same as NJ, I started with files and sandpaper. Then, I made the usual mistakes of trying out the little 1x30" belt sanders and a bench grinder. Took about 5 minutes to realize that wasn't going to get the job done. Then I got a Griz. Noisy and clunky but very powerful and with 2x72 I had access to every type of belt. Made lots of knives on that Griz and I still do 16 years later. About 3 years into the Griz I added a variable speed grinder similar to the KMG and never looked back. I've only heard of one Griz that really died, most just seem to run forever and no matter how many other grinders you may have there's always a job for the Griz. Again, it isn't built as well as the Coote - but it is built along the same concept as the Coote which means it is just about as useful as any 2-wheel grinder will be and it comes complete out of the crate, ready to run. It isn't the best grinder out there but, in my opinion, it's the best for that amount of money and it will get you making knives the day it arrives. So, make knives or build grinders: you choose ....


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  #10  
Old 07-27-2012, 01:48 PM
andrewj1398 andrewj1398 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Same as NJ, I started with files and sandpaper. Then, I made the usual mistakes of trying out the little 1x30" belt sanders and a bench grinder. Took about 5 minutes to realize that wasn't going to get the job done. Then I got a Griz. Noisy and clunky but very powerful and with 2x72 I had access to every type of belt. Made lots of knives on that Griz and I still do 16 years later. About 3 years into the Griz I added a variable speed grinder similar to the KMG and never looked back. I've only heard of one Griz that really died, most just seem to run forever and no matter how many other grinders you may have there's always a job for the Griz. Again, it isn't built as well as the Coote - but it is built along the same concept as the Coote which means it is just about as useful as any 2-wheel grinder will be and it comes complete out of the crate, ready to run. It isn't the best grinder out there but, in my opinion, it's the best for that amount of money and it will get you making knives the day it arrives. So, make knives or build grinders: you choose ....

Yea I defiantly want to make knives!!
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  #11  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:12 PM
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Andrew,

How much experience do you have either a) building knives from ready made blanks, or b) building knives from scratch?

If you definitely want to make knives, do you foresee yourself making 2-3 knives a year, or 2-3 knives a month?

I am in a different boat than Ray. I have a full time job, a house to upkeep, a wife, and 2 kids. I make anywhere from 2-10 knives a year, but my limitation is the time I have to spend on the hobby. I have made them with hand tools only (homemade forge, RR track anvil, and files) and I have made them using a 1x42 and 2x42 belt sanders. I have been making knives for myself, for family and friends, and occasionally to sell to pay for supplies, for 7 years. I do not own a Grizzly, a Coote, or a KMG. I built my own propane forge to heat treat and forge small blades. My biggest equipment purchase in the last 3 years was $80 for a Harbor Freight bandsaw to cut out blanks for stock removal.

The bottom line is, if you want to make knives, make knives. You don't have to have $5000 in equipment to do it.

If you want to make knives to the point that you have 2-3 a month to pay for the hobby (if you manage to sell enough to break even, you are doing better than most makers!), then consider laying down the money up front for at least a Coote and preferably a KMG if you don't want to build. If you do build, lay down the money for a good motor, the quality wheels, pulleys, link belt, etc. Building is not necessarily a cheap option, but you may save some pennies.

If you're not sure which direction you want to go and aren't concerned about how fast you turn out knives, then start with hand tools (you're going to have to use a vice, files, and sandpaper anyway). Yes, it's slow. But it's easier to screw up a knife at high speeds than with hand filing.

Start with small stock--3-4 inch blades, 1/8" thick bar stock, max.

I have 7 knife blanks sitting on the bench right now, ready for me to drill pin holes and then start grinding the bevels. They have 2-3 inch blades--perfect for neck knives or EDC small game knives, and are 0.072" thick 15N20. I could take them to the 2x42 to grind, but at that thickness I can just file the bevels by hand.

Nathan
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:52 PM
andrewj1398 andrewj1398 is offline
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Originally Posted by NJStricker View Post
Andrew,

How much experience do you have either a) building knives from ready made blanks, or b) building knives from scratch?

If you definitely want to make knives, do you foresee yourself making 2-3 knives a year, or 2-3 knives a month?

I am in a different boat than Ray. I have a full time job, a house to upkeep, a wife, and 2 kids. I make anywhere from 2-10 knives a year, but my limitation is the time I have to spend on the hobby. I have made them with hand tools only (homemade forge, RR track anvil, and files) and I have made them using a 1x42 and 2x42 belt sanders. I have been making knives for myself, for family and friends, and occasionally to sell to pay for supplies, for 7 years. I do not own a Grizzly, a Coote, or a KMG. I built my own propane forge to heat treat and forge small blades. My biggest equipment purchase in the last 3 years was $80 for a Harbor Freight bandsaw to cut out blanks for stock removal.

The bottom line is, if you want to make knives, make knives. You don't have to have $5000 in equipment to do it.

If you want to make knives to the point that you have 2-3 a month to pay for the hobby (if you manage to sell enough to break even, you are doing better than most makers!), then consider laying down the money up front for at least a Coote and preferably a KMG if you don't want to build. If you do build, lay down the money for a good motor, the quality wheels, pulleys, link belt, etc. Building is not necessarily a cheap option, but you may save some pennies.

If you're not sure which direction you want to go and aren't concerned about how fast you turn out knives, then start with hand tools (you're going to have to use a vice, files, and sandpaper anyway). Yes, it's slow. But it's easier to screw up a knife at high speeds than with hand filing.

Start with small stock--3-4 inch blades, 1/8" thick bar stock, max.

I have 7 knife blanks sitting on the bench right now, ready for me to drill pin holes and then start grinding the bevels. They have 2-3 inch blades--perfect for neck knives or EDC small game knives, and are 0.072" thick 15N20. I could take them to the 2x42 to grind, but at that thickness I can just file the bevels by hand.

Nathan
Nathan

Sounds like we are in similar boats. I have a full time job and two kids, house (the works). Right now I just want to make some knives and have a hobby for me and my dad to do together. I already have the vise, band saw, drill press, a small table top sander(I have been caring bone for awhile) etc. So maybe we should do our first couple of knifes with files and go from there. I think the goal is to have a father son project type deal and transition into extra cash. My dad is almost retired and he is going to need something to do. I guess I was looking into a grinder because it seemed to be the one big tool I am lacking. I think to start off I will send off my knifes for HT and as time goes on do it my self. I live in NC and there is a huge guild here. I missed the last meeting but look forward to meeting them and getting some pointers. I wanted to start out with a about an 8" hunting knife maybe even smaller.

Thanks

Andrew

Andrew
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:59 PM
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Andrew,

Some of the NC guild members have been members here and are great folks! Definitely go if you have the chance.

A grinder allows you to make knives faster. Really, that's it. Being family guys, it means making a little better progress with that hour of free time that you get to yourself. It sounds like you have enough equipment to make a start. As for your bandsaw, if it is a wood bandsaw forget about trying to use it on metal. I am using a Harbor Freight version of a portaband, held vertically by a simple stand I made for it. In my knife making process cutting out the blanks was the most time consuming step for me, and so I made the purchase to make better use of the time that I have.

As long as you don't want to make knives with 8 inch blades that are a 1/4 inch thick, hand tools are fine (though I have seen some posts over the years where large knives have been made with simple tools).

Nathan
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:22 PM
andrewj1398 andrewj1398 is offline
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Andrew,

Some of the NC guild members have been members here and are great folks! Definitely go if you have the chance.

A grinder allows you to make knives faster. Really, that's it. Being family guys, it means making a little better progress with that hour of free time that you get to yourself. It sounds like you have enough equipment to make a start. As for your bandsaw, if it is a wood bandsaw forget about trying to use it on metal. I am using a Harbor Freight version of a portaband, held vertically by a simple stand I made for it. In my knife making process cutting out the blanks was the most time consuming step for me, and so I made the purchase to make better use of the time that I have.

As long as you don't want to make knives with 8 inch blades that are a 1/4 inch thick, hand tools are fine (though I have seen some posts over the years where large knives have been made with simple tools).

Nathan
Yea no 8" blades. 8" whole knife. I have a portable band saw but I need to get it fixed. How would I know if the band saw is for wood? My grandfather gave it to me before he passed away. Would it not work if I put a metal band saw blade on it?
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:46 PM
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No, a wood band saw will not work for metal and, in most cases, you won't even be able to put a metal cutting blade on it unless you have it custom made. The manufacturers go to considerable lengths to be sure you don't do that sort of foolishness.

Look on the saw and see if there is any indication of what the different speeds might be. A wood saw will have a top speed of about 3000 fpm, a metal saw will top out at around 250 fpm. A metal cutting saw will have plain steel wheels for the blade to ride on, a wood saw will have rubber coated wheels (usually).

It is a good idea to make the first few knives with files and sandpaper even if you could afford any grinder you wanted. You'll always need the files so the money isn't wasted. Using the files and doing it slowly allows you to really understand how and why you're shaping the metal the way you are. As Nathan said, a grinder just gets it done faster. But, a grinder can also mess things up faster so being intimately familiar with what you are trying to do will make learning to use a grinder much easier and using files will teach you that ....


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