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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 03-07-2019, 03:02 AM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
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Help me understand my Hamon

Hi Guys

I decided to try out my first hamon on. The blade is 80crv2 steel.
I'w been looking up information on hamons, but all the texts i find are complicated and very long!

Can some of you in simple turms explains how my hamon is?
What the different parts are named and any other critique?

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  #2  
Old 03-07-2019, 07:20 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Your hamon looks well formed, that's unusual for a first effort. It is too close to the edge of the knife though so don't put they clay so far down the blade next time. You want the hamon to be between 1/2 and 2/3rds down the blade on most knives.

After that, you might want to increase the contrast with some careful finishing. How to do that is probably in those long explanations you mentioned. In short, buff and polish the area below the hamon.....


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Old 03-07-2019, 09:18 AM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
.... It is too close to the edge of the knife though so don't put they clay so far down the blade next time. You want the hamon to be between 1/2 and 2/3rds down the blade on most knives.
Can i ask why its important? Is it because of the look or does it have a structural effect on the blade?
Thanks for the pointers on finish. I Will try it out!
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  #4  
Old 03-07-2019, 09:25 AM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
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I think i figured out the Black line is called the ashi. But what exatly is it? I guess its the line where the steel goes from Austenite to martensite, but why is it dark than the rest?
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:06 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Where the line "should" be is partly the way most people do it, partly esthetic appeal, and partly practical. Practical because the hard steel is below the line so over the years of use that area can possibly be sharpened away. Another practical reason is that with the hamon higher up on the blade it will be in a thicker cross section. Since a hamon represents the most stressed area in the blade it makes sense to put it where it is less likely to cause a crack. In short, hamons are interesting to look at but they tend to make for weaker blades in modern steels.

I've never been a fan of Japanese terminology myself, hamon is sufficient description for me. It is the demarcation point between the hard and soft parts of the blade, the place where the crystalline structure can get completely unpredictable for most of us. I say most of us because the average guy fooling with a hamon doesn't have the heat control necessary to really know what's happening along that line. Done exactly right, a differentially hardened blade (which is really what this is about) can be very tough and toughness was the original point of creating a hamon back when heat treatment was poorly understood and steel quality wasn't very predictable or consistent. But, the further apart in hardness that the two areas of the blade become the more likely the blade will fail under stress. Unfortunately, the greater that difference the better the hamon usually looks. And that is why the finishing efforts to 'develop' a hamon are so complicated. Get the heat treatment right and you really have to work at the finish to make the line show up well (although a LOT depends on the steel you choose).

Anyway, we all try a hamon sooner or later. Modern steels don't require that type of heat treatment to be tough and most are tougher without it. If looks is your goal then considering the effort involved I would only choose to do it if the knife could draw a proportionately higher price. But, that's just me ...


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 03-07-2019 at 01:08 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2019, 05:59 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I rarely disagree with Ray so I don't think that I'll do it this time. You are to be commended with your success at your first try, especially with something like 80CrV2. Not an especially shallow hardening steel. If you can do that well with that alloy you should really make it pop with something like 1075. The real question here, as Ray eluded to, is why do it. What advantage does it give you to have a pearletic spine and a martensetic edge with a dark etched line between? I don't think that there is any purpose in a knife blade, except that it looks neat, unless one is trying to pass the ABS performance test which would probably be better done with differential quenching. No etching necessary.

And, yes, I tried a hamon a couple of times with 9260.

Doug


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Last edited by Doug Lester; 03-08-2019 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Sorry for misspelling you name, Ray
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  #7  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:05 PM
damon damon is offline
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Rasmus Kristens
nice to see you can do this with this steel too. ive mostly used 1084, and W2.

a note to add in the polishing. hand finish 600 or higher grit rather than going to a buffing wheel. hand finishing will give cleaner crisper contrast. ive had decent results going to 15micron before etching, and 1200-1600 grit after. , but like with damascus, the finer you hand finish the crisper your contrast will be.

i am not a ranking authority on this by any means, ive just recently gone through the same critique/ suggestions myself.

another helpful tip ray gave me is to do short etches... sand (1200-2000grit)... clean... repeat...
what i noticed when i followed this advice was it actually etched deeper/ faster than if id let it soak for the full duration it took to do that 4 times letting it soak 1-2 min each time.
my observation on this is the layer of gunk built up on the blade seems to keep the etchant from being as efficient. so cleaning it off allows the ferric to keep getting a fresh bite at the steel. i might be wrong on this, but thats what it looked like was happening.

this is one from a few years ago. sanded to 600 then etched 30+min...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/oiseau...posted-public/

vs the pic posted here of one more recent doing the multiple short etch ray suggested to me. ive still got room to improve. :-/ especially on how far the clay covers.

stupid site wont let me post pic because its also in the "chat room photo sharing thread"
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/at...3&d=1551057196

Last edited by damon; 03-08-2019 at 01:45 PM.
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