Jambiya

[Buddy Thomason]

I'm looking for information concerning this Indo-Persian style blade known as the Jambiya. I've looked it up in various books and on-line and thus already have the basic information. What I haven't been able to find is specific information about how this particular type of silver inlay work is accomplished, or WAS accomplished if this knife is approximately 150 years old as the owner claims. Thanks in advance for any help.

[rhrocker]

It's sure in fine condition for that age, but I don't doubt the owner one bit.
Where's Roc when we need him!!! I'm intreged with this knife! The elephant piano trunk, and the elephant domino ears are strange. What's that symbol just underneath the ear, a window cover, or a oil derick? To me, the style of work on the blade does not begin to equal to other work on the sheath and handle. I doubt that it was done by the same person, but that's true nowadays also. Are there holes drilled in the tips of the tusks? If so then perhaps actual ivory was inserted in them.
Ok, that's all the guessing I can come up with. Sorry Buddy! I'm hoping someone else dan give us a better clue as to it's origin.

[Gene Chapman]

I notice the grind/sanding lines appear to be circular like what a disk sander would make, on the blade in the background of the inlay on the blade and the inlay a bit on the rough side.

Ciircular grind/sanding marks on a 150 year old piece???

Bernard Levine at http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=691 may have a answer/opinion.

[Buddy Thomason]

Gene - I am personally doubtful about the accuracy of owner's belief in what he was told in Istanbul when he plunked down $1,000 US for this piece. My interest is mainly focused on the inlay technique regardless of when it was accomplished. Regarding BL, he is undoubtedly the reigning expert in matters of age and authenticity (as well as identification) but he is also arrogant and offensive to such a degree that he has alienated many inquiring minds including mine. Frankly, I'd rather not know than consult with him. I appreciate his excellent column in Knife World every month but that's enough of him for me. It's unfortunate that not a small number of great talents past and present were/are also marred by serious personality disorders.

As a maker what are your thoughts about the inlay technique? Can silver be hammered into a cross-hatched pattern and stay there without some sort of bonding agent? Is the purity of the silver a factor as it is in twisted gold wire used to form a 'rope' pressed into a groove along the curving flutes of a quillon dagger? (18 ct is superior to 14 ct) What do you think?

[Buddy Thomason]

Addendum:
Are those circular lines behind the blade inlay? I think it may be an optical illusion because of the curving nature of the blade edge to edge, with the middle being much thicker but also rounded without a center ridge separating two different grinds as we often see in modern double edge blades. I'm open to all possibilities but that's my impression after handling the piece for a couple of days while photographing it. Any other opinions? I appreciate being able to discuss this with you guys. Thanks!

[Chuck Burrows]

Can silver be hammered into a cross-hatched pattern and stay there without some sort of bonding agent?

Howdy Buddy: yes - it's a common metalworking inlay technique - the guys over in Fine Embellishment can better answer the how-to.

As for the knife itself - I'd be willing to bet that this an East Indian/Pakistani made piece based on the elephant head grip and waht appears to be "watered" steel. Arabian/Yemeni made jambiyas are generally handled with rhino tusk and made of simple steels with median ridge.

As for BL - yeah I agree ( I really lost it with him when he claimed ALL files made after 1900 are made of air hardening steel - most good ones are made of 1095/W2)....

[rhrocker]

Buddy, most inlays are done by using chisels just a little smaller in width, than the diameter of the wire to be used. A channel is cut using this file. More narrow files are used for corners etc. This channel is then undercut on each side using small pointed chisels. Larger areas are prepared by removing enough steel to equal the diameter of the silver, and as wide and long as is needed. Using yet another chisel, tiny hooks are brought up with only 2 or 3 taps on the hammer. The silver is then laid down to catch the raised hooks in it's path. A small hammer is also used to tap the silver more flat by tapping on a punch that's basically flat on the bottom. This bottom contact point is roughed up with something like 220 grit sandpaper, so that the punch will grab ahold and push and spread the silver without sliding off of it. Once all of the area is finished, either stones, or fine sandpaper is used to bring the silver flush with the surrounding metal.
I'm sort of babbling here, one of the experts will surely chime in.

[Jim Small]

Buddy
Maybe this will help.
This is an ancient way of applying precious metals to the surface of other metals for ornimation.
As you can tell from the close up of the picture....engraving cuts are made all across the surface. You can also see cross cuts where the silver wire is laid and hammered into place. All the artist used in this work was silver wire....in the broader area of the overlay he just laid the wire right next to the previous wire until he got the desired width.
There is an explaination in red on the surface of the photograph.
The questioned grinding marks that folks are talking about are the engraving cuts!
The engraving cut really have a two fold purpose....one to help with holding the silver wire and in the final process shadow the silver wire overlay to make it stand out.
I hope this has help?
Jim Small

[Buddy Thomason]

Thanks Jim, Robert and Chuck... You guys are always such superb resources for them what wants to know. I salute you.

[Buddy Thomason]

After you guys pointed me in the right direction I was able to do some research on my own. Of the stuff I found on the web the three posts below were of some interest so I thought I'd include them here. Everything I've found supports what you guys have already said. The info below simply provides a little bit of context that I found interesting, some references and potentially interesting links which I have not yet viewed.

"There are different types of inlay methods known as koftgari. One is deep inlay where a pattern is incised into the blade and thick wire is hammered into the undercut grooves. The other, traditional koftgari, consists of crosshatching the pattern into the surface and drawing patterns over it with a sharp implement, and hammering thin wire into it. The last is golf/silver foil hammered onto a crosshatched surface. I think this is what is most often seen, as it was the most affordable method.
In some cases the pattern can be punched in and the gold applied to the dotted pattern."
Emanuel Nicolescu, Toronto, Canada The Sword Forum International

"Koftgari is not an inlay art its an overlay art because the gold/silver wire is pressed on crosshatching by a tool. It's really a long process to do that art and it cannot be explained verbaly. In India, three types of koftgari are done which are......

Te-hen-shah work- its an inlaid art in which gold/silver is hammered on the deep chisseled design, you cant feel the gold/silver on the iron as in teh-tula work

Koftgari work - its an overlay art which is done by pressing gold/silver wire by special tool on crosshatching and then its heated and pressed by a polish hakik stone ( not normal stone is use). In this also you can feel gold/silver

Teh-tula work - its also a kind of overlay art in which we can feel gold/silver work on the objects, they just seems embosed work, its really hard to find this work.

In India Koftgari art still exists but no idea about the other two art it may be lost"
Sandeep Singh, India , Udaipur (mewar region) The Sword Forum International

"It is hard to find much info on the specific techniques used in koftgari, by searching that name; however the basic process of overlaying silver or gold wire & sheet onto a cross-hatched ground of harder metal is almost universal, and there are some good descriptions of the method.
Theophilus, in "On Divers Arts" (German, 1120AD) describes a machine for cutting the ground as well as the technique of applying the metal. It is also described in Oppi Untracht?s tome ?Jewelry - Concepts and Technology,? and there are some websites with info on the Japanese and Korean variants of the technique, with movies of the process in the two Japanese pages-
Higo/ numone zogan
http://www.kougei.or.jp/english/crafts/0813/f0813. html
Another -
http://www2.edu.ipa.go.jp/gz/y-kwm/y...IPA-tac490.htm
Movie of pressing the metal into the crosshatching:
http://www2.edu.ipa.go.jp/gz/y-kwm/y...ghn/y-chn8.mpg
Keum-Boo
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/keumboo.htm

The main difference between all of the above and Indian-style koftgari is the use of a chisel to do the cross hatching. I think in the mideast and India it is more common to use a needle to scribe the lines in, though I have seen old blades from Iran/Afganistan that were chiseled. A friend who apprenticed in Germany as a blacksmith was shown how to do it with a steel needle, so they must have forgotten Theophilus? machine (which uses a chisel) over there.
It is not the easiest craft to get right off the bat, but you could get the hang of it with a little perseverance. Getting the metal to stick consistently is the initial issue, then cleaning up the lines and erasing the cross hatching between them without messing things up can pose challenges."
Jeff Pringle, Oakland, California The Sword Forum International

*I should mention that I'm in a situation where I'm sort of a link between the collector who purchased this artifact in Istanbul recently who is also patron to a bladesmith I know. Patron sends Jambiya to bladesmith for comments. Bladesmith becomes interested in a project based on the Jambiya. He and I have photo-docummented similar projects in the past for publication, thus he involved me. Now I'm interested. Frankly, I'm not sure bladesmith wants to tackle the koftgari embellishment, but would rather concentrate on forging the blade, fashioning the handle and constructing the scabbard. Thus the embellishment necessary to complete the piece might (and I think it should) be best left to someone who has the combination of knowlege, experience and interest in applying an historical technique like koftgari in the context of a patron-sponsored project that would additionally lead to an article with a lot of good photographs (my end of the project). I can't promise the project will actually come to pass but if it does I'd want to suggest someone to do the embellishment in such a way that the final product is truly remarkable and noteworthy. Contact me by PM or e-mail if both qualified and interested. Thanks.

[Buddy Thomason]

This is the finished project I mentioned in the above post. The patron elected to go without embellishment. I'm impressed with the deadly nature of these type blades - pointed, twice sharp and increasing width toward the guard. Stick that any place in the chest or abdomen and, as Hanford said, "The Mayo Clinic couldn't save him."

[CWKnifeman]

I have to agree with Jim Small about how it was done, it is simple to do but very time consuming. Actually more time consuming than just doing wire inlay which is also a time comsuming project. One thing thatyou have to take into consideration is that the handle material must be very dense other wise the inlay/overlay will not want to adhere well no matter whodoes it.
Just some food for thought.
Curtis