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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:33 PM
NCBoy NCBoy is offline
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Grinder issues

I have a major problem. I purchased a Pheer variable speed grinder in January when I decided to start making knives as a hobby. I have had nothing but problems. The owner of the company has been great but the problems persist. I have blown 4 different variable speed controllers and have shipped back the first motor. I have changed the power from 110 to 220 and it just blew again. I am at wits end and I am not very mechanical. I have invested way more than planned for my hobby. The company does not know what to do and I could use any helpful advice. Thanks in advance
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:04 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I doubt we can be much help, you probably need someone on site or maybe need to get your motor and controller to an electrical expert.

But, if you want to tell us what motor and controller you have and how the problem manifests itself maybe somebody might have some ideas that could help. If Pheer can't find anything wrong with their equipment then maybe it's your wall current. Ever checked it? Does the motor run for a minute, an hour, a week before it quits? Does it just stop or does the controller burn up?


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Old 09-20-2013, 07:23 PM
NCBoy NCBoy is offline
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We have tried 4 controllers of various makes. Three ran on 110. I then had an electrician wire me for 220. The motor is a 3 phase 1.5 horse motor. They have lasted 2 to 4 weeks each.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:33 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I'm no expert on how those controllers are set up but I know enough to know that it is somewhat complicated and it needs to be done correctly or damage can result. What have you been able to do to insure that your various controllers were set up correctly for the motors you had them connected to?


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Old 09-20-2013, 09:46 PM
Hurley Hurley is offline
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I can ask my buddy in MD, he is VP of an electric motor company. Maybe he can help. I won't be able to ask until Monday though. Hope you find a solution before then though. What kind of motor is it? And what kind of controller?


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Old 09-21-2013, 06:47 AM
Kevster Kevster is offline
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I've got a I 1/2 hp motor on my grinder and the reset button kept tripping so I just removed it and haven't had a problem since.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:05 AM
NCBoy NCBoy is offline
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Guys thanks for the input. The last controler was a vagon and the motor is a 1.5 hp iron mountain. The previous controler for the 110 setup AC tech MC series
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:14 AM
NCBoy NCBoy is offline
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Oops the controler is a vacon 10 mini
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:13 AM
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smithy smithy is offline
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Do you have circuit breakers on the lines going to your grinder? Did the circuit breakers blow also when your motor and controllers went out?

My THEORY would be that when you got your first grinder it was mis-wired. Did you attach the wires to the replacement controllers to the same terminals? If so, you may want to check the connections with a factory symatic.

I am no electrician, these are just my $.02 ...Teddy
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Old 09-21-2013, 03:23 PM
NCBoy NCBoy is offline
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According to the builder it was wired correctly. He color coated the 4 wires and the corresponding wire locstions. I spoke to Chris Wilmont of Wilmont Grinders today. He said because the controler was not in a NEAM moisture and grinder proof box that the metal dust from grinding shorted it out. Does this make sense? We do have breakers and they neve tripped.
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  #11  
Old 09-21-2013, 04:57 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Might make sense - do you see metal dust in the enclosure? Wouldn't take a pile of dust, just enough to make an electrical connection.

Getting the wires in the right terminals is important, of course, but from what little I understand of VFD controllers there's more to it than that. I think there's supposed to be a bunch of pots that have to be set up or some types may use a software set up. Here's an example of the type of stuff I'm referring and, again, I really don't know if any of this applies to your situation:

QUOTE:
Lots of parameters need to be set in the variable frequency drive, and each parameter has a setting range, improper setting in individual parameter will result in the variable frequency AC drive can not work smoothly. Therefore, every parameter must have a correct setting to ensure the whole system operation security.

1. Control modes:
Such as speed control, torque control, PID control, etc. Generally we need to identify static or dynamic according to control accuracy after confirm the control mode.

2. Minimum operating frequency:
It means the electric motor minimum running speed. The cooling performance is very poor when the motor is running at low speed, if the motor runs at low speed for a long time, it will cause the motor burned. And in low speeds, the current in the cable also will goes up which will lead to cable heating.

3. Maximum operating frequency:
Normally the AC drive maximum frequency is up to 60Hz, and few variable frequency drives even up to 400 Hz. The high frequency will make the motor runs in high speed, for general motors, the bearing can not be operated in over rated speed for a long time, the motor rotor is able to withstand such centrifugal force or not.

4. Carrier frequency:
The higher carrier frequency is set, the larger harmonic components caused, it's closed related to cable length, motor heating, cable heating, variable frequency AC drive heating and other factors.

5. Electric motor parameters:
Setting the motor power, current, voltage, speed, maximum frequency in the variable frequency drive, these parameters can be obtained from the motor nameplate directly.
:UNQUOTE

Pay special attention to #2 and #3. In general, that's a warning that if you run a VFD too slow or too fast for too long the system may fail. Parameters have to be set for the slowest speed and the highest speed the system is designed. If the parameters aren't set correctly or if you manage to run faster or slower for long enough the system will fail.

So, did you spend most of your grinding time poking along slowly? Or running full out? If you did then maybe this relates to your problem ...


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Old 09-21-2013, 06:25 PM
NCBoy NCBoy is offline
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Thank you for the parameters of the VFD. As far as my use, the last grinder was set up for 0 to 60 amps (I think - I know this was the scale.) I never once ran it wide open. My average on the high end was around 45 and the lowest I ever ran it was 30. This was for higher grit belts. After looking at the drive i did notice it has an inboard cooling fan. My question is with out the box to protect it from moisture and dust wont the fan just draw the dust in? I really thing this may be the answer. This would explain how they would run great for a time 2 weeks to a month and then blow up. If the electricity was causing the problem, why did it work well? Something happened after a period of time that changed everything blowing the drives.
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:25 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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It could be the dust and the lack of an enclosure. At this point almost anything is possible.

You said your high end was 45 and that you spent most of your time there - 45 out of what? If wide open is 100 and you spent most of your time grinding at 45 then you might be violating Rule #2 . On the other hand, if wide open is 50 then I'd be inclined to look more closely at the dirt problem ...


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Old 09-21-2013, 07:46 PM
NCBoy NCBoy is offline
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Ray

Wide open is 60.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:12 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Well then, dirt seems to be the best guess so far ...


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