newbee question

[darrell]

Hi: As as newbee I have many questions and have found answers to a lot of them on this sight. 2 questions that I have not found answers to is 1 was is the best steel for newbees to start with (for me something that is for giving in heat treatment at this time I am using a charcoal grill and a small air compressor for a forge) question #2 what glues work the best on knife handles I work mostly with wood and have tried macarta. I know I have a billion miles to go, but every journey starts with one step

Thank you all

[Doug Lester]

For ease of heat treating the 10XX or W series of steels are hard to beat, especially if all you have are rather basic/primative equiptment, with the exception of most 1095. As far as glues go for attaching handles I personally like Acraglass bedding compound. There's a marine epoxy out there, I believe that USA Knife Maker Supply carries it, that is also said to be very good. I have had problems with some of the two part epoxies that are carried at the hardware stores. I have run into house brands that would not cure reguardless of how much hardener is mixed with it. A well known master smith has found that many of the name brand epoxies are not formulated to hold up for long periods of time. Also not all of them are water resistant and can break down in outdoor use even faster.

Doug

[Ray Rogers]

Doug has pointed you in the right direction. In addition to his advice, get some catalogs from some of the knife supply houses like Jantz, K&G, Texas Knifemakers, Sheffields, etc. You can find these guys advertising in any knife magazine and some of them by web search. It stands to reason that whatever these guys are selling is pretty much popular with the majority of knife makers. So, by some epoxy from them, check out what steel they sell, look at the kinds of tools they sell, what kinds of finishing products they offer, etc. In time, you'll settle on what works best for you but these catalogs can save you a ton of guess work.

For your steel, look for 1050, 1065, 1075, 1080, 1084 but, as Doug said, not 1095. Stay away from O1, 52100, 5160 for now. If necessary, you can buy a railroad spike - the HC spikes are made from 1050 ....

[Gary Mulkey]

Originally Posted by darrell

Hi: As as newbee I have many questions and have found answers to a lot of them on this sight. 2 questions that I have not found answers to is 1 was is the best steel for newbees to start with (for me something that is for giving in heat treatment at this time I am using a charcoal grill and a small air compressor for a forge) question #2 what glues work the best on knife handles I work mostly with wood and have tried macarta. I know I have a billion miles to go, but every journey starts with one step

Thank you all

As has been said, the 10xx steels (except for 1095) are more easily H/T'ed in an open forge and there are many threads on the various forums as to how. If you are mainly interested in stainless (which are air quench steels) then there are some H/T'ing facilities that will do it for a nominal fee. I know that Texas Knifemaker's Supply will and there may be many others.

If you are planning on forging your blades then stainless isn't a good choise as it doesn't lend itself to forging very well. Personally I would recommend using 1084 for forging as it is a quality steel and very forgiving. If you don't have a supplier then you will find that Aldo Bruno to be a very good & reliable supplier. Whichever steel you decide to use, if you are going to do your own H/T then it is a good idea to use the same steel until you know it well before going on to other steels.

Gary

[cedarfluteman]

For your steel, look for 1050, 1065, 1075, 1080, 1084 but, as Doug said, not 1095. Stay away from O1, 52100, 5160 for now. If necessary, you can buy a railroad spike - the HC spikes are made from 1050 ....[/QUOTE]

I asked the same question on another forum and they said start with O1, yet you said stay away for now. What is the reason for that? Sorry about jumping in on your thread but I'm just trying to understand.
Carl

[SBuzek]

To get the most from 01 you need controlled temps and a long soak time at temp.IMHO the best starter steel and a good steel overall is 1084 from Aldo.Good clean steel and eay to H/T with limited equipment.
Stan

[Ray Rogers]

I agree with Stan. O1 is too alloyed to HT properly without an electric oven. The reason the idea of using O1 as a starter steel persists is that just about any kind of half baked HT you do to O1 will yield a useable blade that will perform well enough to fool most people. However, when O1 is properly heat treated it will far out perform those other blades. Many people feel O1 is the best all around blade steel ever created and I can't argue against that very much.

So, O1 is much more expensive than 1084 and the HT you'll be able to put on it with your equipment will produce a blade that isn't much, if any, better than a good 1084 blade so there's no point in spending the money ....

[Doug Lester]

You are going to get varying opinions on steels. Like O1, there are those who would recommend 5160 and 9260 for the beginner. They makers may have started out with it and had good luck. Most recommendations on steels is based mostly on what people have had success with. The ones that I mention would probably be considered by most knife makers the easiest ones for a beginner to heat treat, especially with the equiptment that you have.

Doug

[huntforlife]

I would agree that if you want to do the HT yourself, the 10xx steels are most forgiving, less 1095HC.
As far as the glue goes, I use Devcon 2ton epoxy. Have had "0" problems reported to me with handles.

I also agree with the O1 needing to be HT'd with controlled temps. I have done O1 in my forge and it worked and held an edge, but nothing compared to my 1080 blades HT'd in the same forge.

[Fireball]

Greetings!

I have a question, why not 1095? I have read in several places over the last couple of years that 1095 is a good steel for a beginner. And the reasons were it worked fairly easily and was simple to HT. Just curious and trying to learn as much as possible.

Thanks!!

Jim K. Aka Fireball

[Crex]

1095 is not so easy to HT correctly without a good bit of experience. You might get lucky but you won't be sure or consistent.
1084 makes a great blade, is easy to learn and work with.......key word is learn.

[Doug Lester]

The thing is that not all 1095 is created equal. Some is very low in manganese and very shallow hardening requiring a very agressive quench. Others have a little more manganese and is easier. They can also vary from batch to batch bought from the same distributor. So one time you may get something that can be easily heat treated and another time get one that's a real challenge. In the past the 1095 available was better for knife making and more consistant. That's where these recommendations come from. At the time the older books on knife making were written there was a better quality of 1095 for our purposes.

The New Jersey Steel Baron, also known as Aldo Bruno, had a melt of 1095 made up for knife making. I immagine that when that batch runs out the he will have another melt made shooting for the same specifications but right now he has the only 1095 that I would be willing to deal with.

Doug

[ranger1]

I've got to go with the crowd. Get some 1084 from Aldo www.njsteelbaron.com and some Acra-glas from Brownells. Good way to start out.

[Fireball]

Crex and Douv,

Thanks for the insight. I actually started out with O1 with good results. I decided to go with O1 based on what I read before I found this website. I am finishing up my 4th knife and when I get it done I will post some pictures.

[darrell]

Thanks ever body for their inputs looks like I'll order some 1084 from Mr. Bruno and stick with that till I got it figured out.