Drain Snake

[INDIAN GEORGE]

Has anyone tried make damascus with it??? I plan on trying it in a canister. The snake is 5/8" Od X 1/2" ID. I will fill the center with 4600/1084 powder, warp the outside of the cable with nickel and fill the rest of the canister with the 1084 powder. My problem is how to cut the billet and draw it out. I was thinking (scary) cut it down the middle then weld the outside sides together then drawing it out. Any suggestions???? :confused:

[Burke]

IG I think that the easiest way would be to accordian the billet. That or you could use a very deep ladder.

[INDIAN GEORGE]

Thanks Bill. On the accordion cut I had it pictured in my mine (Oh!! Boy!!!) that it would just come out like a circle. I was trying to get something like a feather. :confused: :confused:

[chrisinbeav]

Hm... Okay, I know I'm not a hardcore damascus person but I can envision the layering pretty easily. If you are going for a feather effect you'll have to do a drawing split right after you have made the billet solid. If you do any folding right off the bat you are going to get parallel circles. If you do just straight cuts you get almost straight lines. (they would actually be slightly angled due to the spring from the snake, but I don't think it would really be noticable.) My best guess would be to do a drawing split, pulling the metal as you cut it, then start foldingover itself. You should get a fairly heavy feather effect. And like I said, I am no master of damascus, but I can envision the the steel billet in my head. I'm going to try it with some play dough first and see what happens.

I do have one question... You plan on filling the center with 2 different powder steels, how are you planning on creating a pattern inside? Or are you just going for a random effect? If so, how do you know how much powder to put in of each? Just curious...

Chris Nilluka

P.S.: Thanks for the pointers in the other post

[INDIAN GEORGE]

Originally Posted by chrisinbeav

Hm... Okay, I know I'm not a hardcore damascus person but I can envision the layering pretty easily. If you are going for a feather effect you'll have to do a drawing split right after you have made the billet solid. If you do any folding right off the bat you are going to get parallel circles. If you do just straight cuts you get almost straight lines. (they would actually be slightly angled due to the spring from the snake, but I don't think it would really be noticable.) My best guess would be to do a drawing split, pulling the metal as you cut it, then start foldingover itself. You should get a fairly heavy feather effect. And like I said, I am no master of damascus, but I can envision the the steel billet in my head. I'm going to try it with some play dough first and see what happens.

I do have one question... You plan on filling the center with 2 different powder steels, how are you planning on creating a pattern inside? Or are you just going for a random effect? If so, how do you know how much powder to put in of each? Just curious...

Chris Nilluka

P.S.: Thanks for the pointers in the other post

Chris, it would not get folded, it would get drawed out only. I don't think I would even forge to shape, I would just stock remove. This way ( I think :confused: ) that more of the pattern would show. The 4600/1084 is mixed because the 4600 has a hi % of nickel but no carbon so the center will be a lighter color than the snake(dark) then with the nickel around the outside shoud give another line(Silver) then it would be the 1084(dark). HEHEHE!!! sounds good on paper :confused:

[chrisinbeav]

Okay, your definately right! I tried it and from what I can tell, as soon as I folder it I screwed it up! Here's the pics! (I love doing things like this!)

Okay here we go with the raw materials...

Snake in red,
Nickel on the outside in blue,
4060 in the inside in yellow,
1084 in the inside in white.



okay now forge welded together into a solid billet


now doing the drawn cut

[chrisinbeav]

so far so good


at this point it looks like it's going to work pretty good


here it is completely cut and rotated


here we go forge welding the parts back together, At this point it looks like it's going to work great!

[chrisinbeav]

alright now here is where I think I screwed up
cut so I can fold it


now it's folded


forge welded again into what I thought was going to be the finished billet


cut the basic shape of a knife


now I started the grinds (that doesn't look feather like at all!)


here's a close up of the pattern


now the other side (still looks like crap!)


looking at the tang you can kind of see there might have been a little feather effect. I think the fold, as you explained and I figured out, is where I screwed up


So, yeah! Lesson learned. Just because it sounded good in my head, deffinately doesn't mean it was right. In fact, all it ended up with was a heavily worked random pattern! Interesting!

Chris Nilluka

[INDIAN GEORGE]

OK that does look like what I had picture in my mind :confused: :confused: . I will be working with a square not a round. If that amkes a differents???? The billet will be 6" long and a 1" square when it is welded. :cool:
Thanks for the help

[chrisinbeav]

Originally Posted by INDIAN GEORGE

I will be working with a square not a round. If that makes a differents????

I wouldn't think that it would make a difference because mine started out round then hammered it until square. So you would basicly be skipping a step.

Trying damascus patterns in playdough works pretty slick. I saw that in one of the Blade magazines a while back. Plus if you have younger kids they love the constant supply of fresh playdough .

Chris Nilluka

[INDIAN GEORGE]

Plus if you have younger kids they love the constant supply of fresh playdough .
Nope my kids are 37 and 36. Thank God and both live in Arizona.

[Burke]

IG

yep your'e right you would just get oval targets with an accordian. and i think that you woulld get figure eights with a ladder. If you were to alternate layers of powder inside the spring and then follow the proceedure on feather damascus elswhere in this forum you may get what you are looking for. Chrisinbeav's pictorial looks real good but I believe that it would be very hard to split your billet in the same manner that he split his play dough. the act of pulling the stylus length wise down the side of the billet kind of smeared the layers together giving the look that you are after but to cut a hot billet the same way would be next to undoable. Standing it up and upsetting and then splitting would probably not give the desired effect because of the solid core. Hence the need to layer the powders inside the spring instead of the wrapped layers. Now for the disclaimer. I may or may not know what the hell that I'm talking about and any action taken whether following my advise or not may or may not result in the desired pattern. I therfore cannot be held liable for the failure of your project but will glagly accept any and all credit should you be successful.

[chrisinbeav]

First off, I should say that I even feel kind of stupid replying just because I haven't really done much damascus work. I do not have the years of experience that many of the other people do.So I'm bascially going off of theory here.

Originally Posted by Burke

IG

Chrisinbeav's pictorial looks real good but I believe that it would be very hard to split your billet in the same manner that he split his play dough.

I would have to agree. The only way I could see doing a split like that would be if the billet is really hot! I believe it would have to be past welding heat getting closer to a fluidic state. Then drive the billet with a blunt object, like a worn out chisel or a railroad spike. Something that would pull or push the metal instead of cut it.

[INDIAN GEORGE]

Thanks guys. I need all the brain storming I can get. HEHEHE!!!I was planning on annealing it and cutting it down the center on my bandsaw. I also have a 20 ton hot cutting press. I tried accordion cutting a mosaic billet with it but it just smeared the pattern. :confused:

[chrisinbeav]

Originally Posted by INDIAN GEORGE

I tried accordion cutting a mosaic billet with it but it just smeared the pattern. :confused:

Now, I think that might almost work. That's sounds kind of like what I was saying. Instead of doing a clean cut you would have to do a cut that is pulling or pushing the metal in a consistent direction. Another problem I have been thinking of is if you do a cut like that, it's probably not going to pull or push enough of the metal to make a pattern. Like in my playdough billet notice all the colors were pulled clear out to the edges. I don't think this would actually happen with steel. I think it would only pull maybe like a small 1/4 inch section around the cut. (Not very dramatic) Unless of course you really get the billet heated up like I had previously stated. The only problem is, I don't know enough about mettalurgy, yet, to know if this is going to destroy everything that you are trying to do?! Or, have some adverse effect on the overall performance of the billet after made into a knife. (Anybody have any input on this?)

Chris Nilluka

P.S.:I'm going to do some more research and see if I can figure anything out...