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  #1  
Old 02-12-2004, 11:55 PM
Joe Walters Joe Walters is offline
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Need Electrical Help

Beyond wiring up a motor or putting in a celing fan, I'm pretty much clueless about electricity.

I'm moving into a new shop that has a wall receptacle marked 125/250 volt 50 amp. When I searched online, I found out it is a NEMA 14-50P outlet.

I'm confused because the woman who runs the building says that it's 208 volts (or at least that's what it says on her spec sheet).

So I'm clueless as to what kind of power comes out of that outlet! Is it 3 phase? I want to hook up an electric heat treat rig and I'll more than likely run a 2 to 5 HP motor from it every once and awhile, so I need to know what types of temperature controller will run from it and what kinds of motors are compatable with the voltage/phase.

If anyone knows what I've got, any and all information is greatly appreciated. Fire I can handle, electricity I just don't mess with unless it's the simple stuff.
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Old 02-13-2004, 06:55 AM
Mail4Tim Mail4Tim is offline
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Joe,

The safest thing would be to put a meter on it and find out for sure.

Tim
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  #3  
Old 02-13-2004, 08:22 AM
paul harm paul harm is offline
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if it don't look like a 110 plug, treat it as a 220 volt single phase. i'm a retired electrician of 35 yrs.- don't remember all those numbers you gave, but it sounds like a 220 [ or 208]. you could check from each leg to the "u" shape leg- should read 110, and from one leg to the other- 220. the 50 amp on the plug is only telling you what the plug is rated for. amps= heat, the more amps, the more heat [ the more electron movement in the wire the more friction]- so the wire size and insulation around it determines what size fuse is used to protect the wire. you could have a 50 amp plug, but a 20 or 30 amp fuse= good for 30 amps. people do dumb things- wrong size breaker for the wire, etc. here's some numbers: 14ga. = 15amps 12 = 20 amps
10 = 30 amps 8= 40amps 6= 55amps look in your panel for what breaker the wire is going to. check its rating and check the wire size [ printed on the wire] to see if they match up. if you have a double pole breaker you have 220 [ although someone could have used 2 single breakers- the dumb factor]. the important thing is- don't use a breaker or fuse rated more than the wire is rated for. you could go smaller and be safe. the breaker is what protects from fires. good luck paul
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Old 02-13-2004, 08:26 AM
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Jamey Saunders Jamey Saunders is offline
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Joe,

That type of plug provides both 115VAC and 220VAC. Your landlord has a spec sheet stating 208VAC, the plug is specced to 250VAC, but I'd check with a voltmeter to be sure. When I was working on electric motors, many of them had voltage specs of 208-230, which basically meant that they would operate on any voltage from 208VAC to 230VAC. Most voltages are ranges, because the lines in are not actually regulated to a specific voltage. Your regular house voltage can vary from 110VAC to 120VAC, but we usually call it 115VAC. What we normally call 230VAC can vary from 208VAC to 250VAC. If you're going to be plugging in a motor, you should be fine. Just check it with a voltmeter first. If it really worries you, I think there are regulators that can be wired inline to provide a constant voltage.


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Old 02-13-2004, 08:47 AM
paul harm paul harm is offline
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joe, hope i wasn't too long winded. i would look at all the things you my want to plug into that outlet. make sure they're all the same voltage or you'll need 2 different plugs. try to stick to 220
or 208- you'll use about 1/2 the amps= cheaper electric bills. once you've deceided on the voltage, look to see how much amps each item draws. make sure the fuse, wire size, and plug are all rated high enough to handle the largest item. the fuse [circuit breaker] is the most important factor- make sure it's not bigger than what the wire is rated for [or you could have a fire]. oh, not likely you have 3phase- sometimes farms get it put in, but the power co. don't like to do it. an ind. shop will have it though- 220 or 440. you can use 220 3 phase moters on 220 single phase but must use a converter [to trick it into thinking its 3 phase]. i have a 220 3phase surface grinder and mill- i use 1 plug either can plug into and a converter to fool them. used 3 phase moters are cheaper to buy than single phase- just have to get a converter. any questions, let me know. paul
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Old 02-13-2004, 09:01 AM
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Jamey Saunders Jamey Saunders is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by paul harm
used 3 phase moters are cheaper to buy than single phase- just have to get a converter.
paul
Paul's right, three-phase motors are cheaper. There's also a lot less to go wrong. No mechanical switches to cut out the starting windings. No brushes like in DC motors. Just coils of wire and bearings. Change the bearings once a year (not a hard process) and a three phase motor should last for many years to come.


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Old 02-13-2004, 10:42 AM
Joe Walters Joe Walters is offline
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Thanks for the replies and info everyone!

Here's the picture of the outlet type:


Looking at an outlet chart, it says that this type of receptacle is a "3 pole 4 Wire Grounding" type.

I want to run a variac or some other type of infinite control switch to power an electrical heat treating oven. If this is 3 phase, then it looks like a very spendy proposition. If anyone knows of a good place to get reasonably priced variacs, SCR's or another control unit that would work, please let me know.

Also, what's a good book or website for an introduction to understanding electricity. Most of the stuff on the web is very technical and geared to someone who already understands the basics. Thanks again!
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2004, 11:25 AM
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Jamey Saunders Jamey Saunders is offline
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From the NEMA classification, this isn't a three-phase plug. It's a plug that delivers 115VAC on one side and 230VAC on the other. The U shaped hole at the top is for the case ground. One of the I shaped holes is common, and the other two are "hot" legs. Use the two "hot" legs together, and you have 230VAC. Use one of the "hot" legs with the common leg, and you get 115VAC. It's all single-phase, though.

Don't know of any online electricity tutorials. I learned everything I know the hard way, and let me tell you, "the hard way" is a very "electrifying" experience!


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Old 02-14-2004, 06:21 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Joe,
Lots of good advice here, most learned the "hard way" as Jamey said.
One thing to keep in mind :
The receptacle did not wire up the circuit...........some human did! (and he might not have been an electrician or he may have cut corners using what he had in the truck or in his junk box).
If you are not comfortable with what you see, get a #######d electrician to check it out and verify what you have.

Assumptions cause damage and heartbreak every day. Don't become a statistic on some county department's wall, play it safe!
I worked instrumentation and electrical in wastewater plants for many years (ISA Certified and Hard Knocks Tested) and continuously found that labels only indicate what could or should be there. If you're not "standards" wise and/or comfortable with your skills with a multimeter, get help.

We all want to save money and so things ourselves (we knifemakers have a mean independence streak). So I do understand your want to solve this yourself, just please be careful.
Carl Rx


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  #10  
Old 02-14-2004, 10:28 PM
Waycasy Waycasy is offline
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Ditto what Jamey,Paul and Crex said!
There are no 3 phase residential plugs installed by power companies and nothing that I know of runs on 208 alone! What you have is a 220 outlet but that should be confirmed by a meter
or an electrician with a meter. I have worked at the power co. in Houston, Tx. for 24 yrs and this is what I would do to solve your problem!


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Old 02-16-2004, 04:45 PM
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brucep brucep is offline
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Just FYI...I work at a company that sells automation gear.

One of the things we sell are variable frequency drives...and we sell them cheap.

More importantly, some of these drives can be set up to accept 220VAC single phase inputs and then provide 3-phase voltage to a 3-phase motor. This removes the need for a phase converter. As noted above, 3-phase motors are usually both cheaper and less trouble.

I intend to hook one up to my bader BM-3 as soon as I get 220 run to my shed.

Here's a link to our GS2 series drive page:


GS2 drives


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Last edited by brucep; 02-16-2004 at 04:47 PM.
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