MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 11-01-2016, 05:57 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 205
yes it is an 01 blade. I will do 400 then.
I will likely use this knife as a bait cutting knife for fishing and want the blade as hard as possible so it retains an edge for a long time. it will only be used to slice fish although occasionally they will be large enough the bones will come into play.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-01-2016, 06:10 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
You are heat treating O1 Kyle?, then are you going to do a double temper? Then 375 is fine for the first temper and then let it cool to room temp, then a second temper at 425 should put you around RC 60. Here is the catch. If you only heated it to nonmagnetic (1413) that isn't hot enough for O1 or 1095 you need to get it up to 1475 which is the sweet spot for O1 and close enough for 1095. Quench in 130 degree oil. A 40 to 80 viscosity oil, Canola oil is fine if that's what you have. Put the hot blade in point first and fast. DO NOT move it side to side, up and down is fine a little. 1475 is orange hot, a bright orange is what you want while working the point in and out so the tip doesn't overheat, edge up.

O1 is a deep hardening steel and benefits being kept at 1475 for up to 15 minutes, but in a forge that isn't going to happen, but yellowish orange is top of the range for O1 which is 1550, but it won't quench to max hardness at that temp. Try to stay away from yellowish orange. A good strong orange bright color is where you want to be. O1 is more forgiving on grain growth though than the 10xx steels, but only a little. You'll get some yellowish orange, but work the blade in and out to prevent it if you haven't a way to adjust your heat. Which from what you described you don't.

It's possible to control your heat in a forge to a large degree with regulators on your air and propane lines and two burners, but that is a story for another day. With pure O2 you can even smelter steel.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-01-2016, 06:19 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 205
couple things I have for you. will I be ok doing a horizontal quench with the blade facing down?
while in the forge, I want to move the knife in and out with the blade facing upwards as opposed to having the knife in the forge with the blade facing sideways?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-01-2016, 06:59 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
The edge down for quench in a pan is fine just don't move it sideways. And hold the blade edge up in your forge if that is where it stays the coolest or edge down if that is where it doesn't turn yellow orange. The sideways is just something I've never been taught to do as I can't see both sides of the blade, but that edge is what you want to watch. Holding sideways in the forge seems, seems like a way to unevenly heat the blade on one side first which you do not want to do. Just quench it fast and get it under the oil as fast as you can and definitely edge down.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-01-2016, 07:37 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 205
I Heat treated it and I dont think I got it hot enough it was orange but it didnt catch the oil on fire and the blade is just really dark brown now. do I have to normalize it before trying to HT again?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-01-2016, 07:53 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
No!

You did fine, Orange you say? That's perfect, just temper it quick!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-01-2016, 07:54 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
Is it dark brown from Tempering Kyle? Did you grind a shiny spot on it and it's dark brown?

It doesn't have to flame up Kyle, that's the point of a fast quench. If it was Orange hot you were close to 1475 degrees for O1 and it does need to be held there for 5 minutes, but in a forge that's not really possible unless the forge is close to the right temp. Orange hot and quenched you are near max hardness at 65RC. The final quench determines the final hardness. Not knowing where your temp would be is why I said temper at 375 first. Then grind a shiny spot on it and take it to a cardboard color, or light brown at 450. You should be at or near RC 60. Check the blade after the first temper and watch as a file skates over it, but the second temper a file should just barely bite into it.

Last edited by jimmontg; 11-01-2016 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Clarifications
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-01-2016, 08:00 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 205
It has been in the oven for about 30 minutes burried in sand. I have another 2 hours to go. I put the timer on for a little longer as the sand was room temp when put in.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-01-2016, 08:02 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 205
I put it in the oven when it was just barely warm. I hope I didnt wait to long. it heated up a LOT quicker in the forge than I had anticipated.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-01-2016, 08:30 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
If you do not intend to pound steel after the forge then you need to slow the flow of air into the forge so it doesn't heat up so fast. My brother and I at first just plugged part of the air intake. Then we added regulators like you get for air compressors and just controlled the whole thing, but he had an air compressor and 20 gallon propane tank. Why are the blades buried in sand? To slow the temper temperature rise?

Last edited by jimmontg; 11-01-2016 at 08:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-01-2016, 08:33 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
If you have two hours to go I hope that means you're doing two tempers of one hour each. Let the blade cool to room temp between tempers ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-01-2016, 08:42 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 205
I am on the first temper. I set timer for 2:30. I can always pull it out after 2 hours. I just figured with all of the sand It would take a lot longer to get to temp. Should I let the blade cool in the sand or pull it out to cool?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-01-2016, 10:15 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 205
Here are a couple pics of the blade after the first temper.
How do I go about testing the heat treat without destroying the blade?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxh...w?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxh...w?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxh...w?usp=drivesdk
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-01-2016, 10:51 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,840
What I was trying to convey was that O1 doesn't need to be tempered for two hours, a one hour temper is sufficient. Most guys, including me, usually temper O1 twice for one hour each time. Take the blade out of the sand and let it cool in still air (don't wave it around or turn a fan on it). If you're going to use sand just heat the sand while you're HTing your blade so it will be ready when you want to temper.

Probably the fastest and most effective way to test your blade is the brass rod test. Sharpen your blade, put a brass rod on a flat, smooth table. The rod can be 1/4" to 1/2" in diameter. Put the edge of the blade on the rod at the same angle that you used when sharpening so that just your fresh edge is laying against the rod. Raise the back of the blade just slightly so only the side of the sharpest part of the blade rests on the rod. Now push down hard enough to cause the edge to deflect - you may need a magnifying glass to see it because it should be very slight. While the pressure is on and the edge is deflected push the edge along the rod causing the rod to roll on the table.

Did the edge chip or crack? Temper higher. If that doesn't fix it you missed on the HT.

Did the edge deflect and stay bent? Too soft.

You're not trying to cut the rod, you're trying to bend the edge. If it bends, rolls with the rod, and comes back to straight you got it right. If it has a couple of small chips but is otherwise OK you're still good. If you can't get the edge to deflect it's too thick.

And, of course, the best test is to cut a lot of stuff and chop stuff and see if it holds an edge. Finally, when you get new steel do a test and break a blade. Every now and then, break a blade. There is no such thing as really consistent carbon steel these days, you can't rely on the next piece heat treating exactly like the last piece. That's why we buy as much as we can at a time hoping its all from the same batch ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-01-2016, 11:14 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
Ray is right on the money for testing. A hardness tester is handy too and some machine shops will do it for you for a nominal fee. If they charge more than $10 find another one. Reason I said a five minute soak is better is because it improves the toughness and I just learned a few months ago a 10 to 15 minute soak really improves O1's toughness. Problem is you can not do it in a forge, you need an oven with precise controls. When I HT O1 I always went by the book and I have in the last few years discovered the book isn't all there is to say about it. O1 isn't really a forge steel as it does have exacting standards, but if it is HT right it beats any 10xx steel made. I have forge treated it lots of times, but it's never perfect, but it's always good. The orange is what you want.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
440c, back, blade, common, conversion, edge, file, forge, hamon, handle, harden, heat, heat treat, hot, knife, make, making, metal, quenched, small, steel, tang, temper, tiny, white


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re-heat treat? Jim T The Newbies Arena 1 10-02-2013 04:17 PM
o1 heat treat blitt214 Heat Treating and Metallurgy 1 09-18-2013 02:33 PM
D2 Heat treat Recurve Ed Caffrey's Workshop 13 11-19-2007 09:18 AM
Hi new guy here to heat treat twistedneck Heat Treating and Metallurgy 2 12-03-2005 01:03 AM
Heat treat set up. Ray Cover Jr The Newbies Arena 5 04-16-2004 04:14 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:31 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved