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  #1  
Old 03-12-2009, 09:24 PM
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SharpByCoop SharpByCoop is offline
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Thumbs up Portrait mode contest - Comments and critique

Hi folks,

I will step out on a limb to offer my personal viewpoints and subjective analysis. Having the skills to take photos does not qualify one as a reviewer, but that won't stop me.

I humbly submit my thoughts:

Fred Carter Elvan Allred folder

A professional photo by every measure. Crystal clear, and informative. It did not get many votes, but methinks it simply has so much going on it's all too much. A mystifying dark sky, and two closed-view insets. My only personal thought was it looked more like a landscape mode photo fitted in a portrait style. Most photographers work for years to get Fred's clarity.

Cal Ganshorn A pair of his own knives

Cal, I'll give you props for being creative and using those feathers and working two knives to look attractive.

But your fate came from two areas: the photo is simply a landscape mode shot turned sideways. The perspective is ALL wrong, and if you look at it sideways, then it looks 'legit'. That background is also a bit too much in complimentary color, and the white balance also shows the dreaded yellow incandescent tint.

Overall, good clarity, but not award-winning. Yet. Please keep at it!


RBSlaughter Jerry Rados fixed blade

Rich has won this contest in times past, and has produced KILLER entries and non contest shots. Certainly a semi-pro in capabilities.

This particular shot is not one of his better. The imbalance of props on one side, the props themselves are competing (winning?) for the subject's main focus, and, dare I say, an uncompelling knife.

Another shot that needs a bit of correction on the white balance. The blade appears blue instead of grey. (I pulled it into PS and corrected it, and I could not believe how much it changed the look.) Also the handle and background are too similar in color to create arousal.

I think Rich is MUCH more qualified. Keep your eyes on his work.


Buddy Thomason John Perry fixed blade

Buddy did what an expert does in ANY field: He took a difficult job and made it look easy.

The lighting is perfect on the blade, showing the crisp grinds without washing out the rubbed finish, and the handle profile has the subdued highlights showing the contours of the curves. Even the dark sheath and guard has all it's detail intact. Showing brights and darks in good visual balance is: one part mastery of lighting, and one part smart editing.

The background, although possibly computer-generated, has the glow of radiance which makes it ethereal.

Time well-spent and right within all the rules. Worthy of a win!


Barbara Turner Mike Turner fixed blade

Barbara tells us she worked hard at this one, and I'm glad she entered. There are a number of really good things going on, and some basic flaws. The perspective is good and she gave us a true portrait-mode shot. The color balance is right on the money. That metal looks neutral. It's also sharp tip to butt, which is hard on this style shot.

That said, I am befuddled by the blurriness on the surrounding backgrounds. I keep cleaning my glasses in case it's me. I am supposing this was intentional? Or it's a background I am unfamiliar with.

There is a need for more bounced lighting. The brights are too bright and the darks are too dark. Now the biggest drawback is a common aspect in knife photography: the sheaths are MUCH bigger subjects than the knives and end up stealing the show. This particular one is obviously well-made, but it offers no 'wow' factor.

My choice would have been to lay the knife over the sheath somehow, and probably let the top of the sheath bleed out of the frame. This would accomplish making the knife the formidable subject and the sheath an included feature, without dominance.

Barbara isn't a quitter and she'll be bowling us over regularly with her shots, I know.


OK, that's all I am going to offer here. Sad to say, we are a shadow of the past, with only about 13 members voting. (Five entries and me: That leaves seven votes from the membership. It's really hard to justify.)

That said, I wish you all to continue working hard on this!

Tell me what YOU saw. I always learn from these, too.

Coop


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Last edited by SharpByCoop; 03-12-2009 at 09:26 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-12-2009, 10:26 PM
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Hey, thanks Coop.. It takes time to do these reviews, I appreciate it. I think you were right in your comments about all the entries.. Buddy put in the time, and it showed. Nice to have the contest back.. Thanks again for overseeing the contest, and your review of shots... Rich
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Old 03-12-2009, 11:46 PM
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Buddy Thomason Buddy Thomason is offline
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I would like to echo Rich in thanking Coop for taking the time to make this learning experience happen, and for sharing his assessments - a risky proposition a best since some folks tend to be a little bit "sensitive".

To help me evaluate my own images I use a simple system that Coop introduced in the past, on this very forum. It makes so much sense. Using a categorical rating system will introduce objectivity into the image evaluation process. And eventually, 'what we measure improves.'

It's based on 5 categories and each category is rated 1-5 where....

1 = seriously flawed
2 = one or more minor flaws
3 = no significant flaws
4 = better than average
5 = almost as good as it gets

An overall numerical score would be the sum of each rating in the five categories. HOWEVER, excepting photo contests, it is almost never useful to look only at the overall score since it doesn't say much about what's going on in the individual areas of importance.

The five categories are...

1. Composition
2. Lighting
3. Color
4. Clarity
5. Creativity

Having a common language with which to discuss knife photographs allows photographers and non-photographers at all levels of interest and skill to engage in productive discussions and educational critiques for anyone who might request feedback on an image.

One concern for anyone new to digital photography of knives might be a relative lack of knowledge regarding what constitutes a "flaw" and how to distinguish major from minor photographic flaws. Actually, even if that is the case, simply using the rating system will focus you on the main categories and after a time you start to "see" those kinds of things.

That process is greatly enhanced through good critiques such as Coop provides above.


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Old 03-13-2009, 01:33 AM
Barbara Turner Barbara Turner is offline
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Smile

Coop,

Thanks for taking your time to critique all the knife pictures, including mine. I have already taken a couple more pictures that I know are much better than the last. It is very difficult to keep the entire knife in focus from tip to handle and try not blow out the highlights as well. The shape on the bolsters is VERY difficult to light evenly, because I have tried repeatedly, still unsuccessfully. There is a trick to this that I have not mastered. I have tried mirrors, reflectors, black & white foam board, on board flash, as well as strobes. I just can't seem to get all my ducks to line up, so to speak. Everyone did a great job on their knife pics and I look forward to seeing more.

As far as the backround goes, it is a piece of scrap fabric which is partially blurry and partially sharp. Kinda like an optical illusion. I am sure the camera rendered it a little more blurry than it really is, but it's just an unusual type of fabric.

Don't worry it's not your eyes.


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Last edited by Barbara Turner; 03-13-2009 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:34 PM
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Barbara.. I feel a little uneasy giving advice, in fact, I rarely do so unless I can tell that the person asking is a beginner and just needs a nudge. You certainly don't fall into that catagory, as I have have always read the back and forth you have with Buddy and others on this forum. Coop was to kind in his remarks about some of my pictures, but I know I am so far behind guys like him and Buddy I usually keep any comments to myself and try to learn from them, or respond to people via email and not in public..

However, in your post you mentioned several things that are all important in proper lighting, but left out one that might be helpful. The actual "placement" and angle of the knife you are shooting... Sometimes a tiny piece of tape, or clay, placed just so, under the bolster or scale, to alter the angle the knife slightly, works wonders.. Try tip up, tip down, right hand, left hand etc. Also, move the knife around inside of your tent, or lean to. I have taken shots sometimes with the knife in the very corner, or up and to the right etc. It's a challange because you end up with your camera "inside' your light set up. For Coop, that's no big deal because he is usually in "hand held" mode, and just sticks his camera inside and angles it as needed. I have a medical condition that causes tremors, so a tripod is a must for me. When I have a knife that is placed oddly in my tent to get the best lighting, I have a small tripod I switch to . It's a royal pain, but works sometimes... If all else has been tried and it still isn't right, try moving the stationary lights around for just that particular shot in a configuration that works out only for that knife. Sometimes I just move all my lights "back", in somecases "way back", until any shadows or flares go away. Then boost the brightness via various edits... Best, Rich
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:18 PM
Barbara Turner Barbara Turner is offline
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First, let me say don't be uneasy about giving advice and suggestions. I think everyone can always learn a new trick that they hadn't used before. When people share ideas it helps everyone.

Thanks Rich for your comments. I appreciate you taking the time to give some great suggestions. The shot I took had (quake hold) under the handle and the blade. I am always moving lights around to different sides trying to eliminate or reduce shadows and or glare. I also try different placements with the knives as well per your suggestions. I took a shot recently where I used a sheet of white paper clipped to a stand to reduce a dark shadow on a bolster and that worked pretty well. I mainly use 1 softbox and another light on a stand with an umbrella, shoot through or black w silver interior. I sometime think my lights are a tad too bright even on lowest setting, but with the softbox (which has 1 stop diffusion) I also use another 2 stops of diffusion in front. It definitely softens & evens out the light.

Yes, I am very much a beginner. I have only started with photography in the past 2 years and am self taught. I have learned a lot from everyone on this forum and have picked up a lot of good advice. I will keep trying and can't wait to post the new picture I took a few days ago. I think it turned out quite nice. I am hoping the next contest is something that will allow me to post it. If not, I may just post it here for critique. I can still enter it down the road. Thanks again for your helpful suggestions.


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Last edited by Barbara Turner; 03-13-2009 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:31 AM
Wade Holloway Wade Holloway is offline
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Coop if I may offer a suggestion. I lurk here allot and have played with photography in the past and have a wife now really wants to get into it. So I would like to thank you for all of the help that all of you give so often. I believe I voted in this last competition and to me it was harder to vote than it should have been. To me it would have been allot easier if the pictures were all on one thread. I do not have the eye that yall do so it was allot of switching back and forth to look at the different pictures. If you had them all in one thread then you could scroll up and down through all of the pics just like you would walk back and forth if you were judging them in real life or in person. Just my 2 cents worth and take it for what it is worth.
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Old 03-14-2009, 05:14 PM
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Hi Wade,

That's a consideration for the future. I know what you mean. There is some drawback in this, as the photographers added comments about their setups, which I wanted the viewer to realize, and sometimes having the blinders on with no other photos in view, allows us to see things we may not if we only skim.

Buddy's repost of a grading 'system' we talked about in times past is absolutely valid. Thanks for taking the time to repost.

Next post I am going to show comparisons....

Coop


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Old 03-14-2009, 05:23 PM
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Comparisons...

Hi folks,

Once again, my own tastes are subjective, but I will show you what and how I saw things.

I took the liberty of reworking (3) images to show what I meant. I didn't touch Dr. Fred Carter's or Buddy's. I can't fix what ain't broken there.

Cal Ganshorn:



Here's what this fine display looks like with proper color correction and it's true perspective. It's a HIT! Keep at it please, Cal.

Rich Slaughter:



I thought the knife was lost in all that background, so I cropped it to make it truly stand out. And a true grey for color correction. See the vibrancy now?

Barbara Turner:



Another knife swimming in a huge pond. I Photoshopped the image to show how and what I would have done the layout, and tightened up the crop. It's certainly front and center now. ( A touch of Shadow/Highlight, to brighten it up, too.)

I hope this was helpful, and PLEASE feel free to say (or think) "I didn't like it."

Thanks. Thoughts?

Coop


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Old 03-14-2009, 06:49 PM
Barbara Turner Barbara Turner is offline
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Coop,

I personally wanted to thank you for taking the time to edit several of the entries. I didn't realize you were going to do that and appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to show us other options.

Well I do have a comment about how you re-worked my attempt. I like it!!! May I ask you to do all my post processing before I enter. Seriously, I really like how you greatly improved the composition on mine and would like to know what tool you used to cut out the knife in photoshop and give it the floating effect. I have tried different tools to cut around objects but I am having a difficult time trying to use a mouse (it's either me or that darn mouse). Buddy has given suggestion on cutting objects out using the pen tool but I still haven't quite got the hang of it. I still have a lot to learn and I hope you don't mind me asking questions. Thanks for your continuing guidance.


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Last edited by Barbara Turner; 03-14-2009 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 03-14-2009, 07:53 PM
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Hi Barbara,

I actually wish the knife looked like it was laying on the sheath instead of 'floating'. Anyway, you get the idea.

The cleanest way to extract an image is to use the Polygonal Lasso Tool. (Not the Pen Tool. Maybe you weren't clear.).

Set it at 0 or 1 pixels. Enlarge your subject to 300% or so and then click and move, click and move, etc., right on the edge around the whole knife. When you get to the starting point the tool changes with a small circle. At that point, double-click and you will have that area selected (The famous marching ants....) I probably clicked about 30-40 times to surround it.

Copy the selection and then paste, and NOW that selection is a layer to move and adjust as needed. (Or adjust everything below it without disturbing the layer.)

I used the clone tool to cover the area that used to have the knife with surrounding background.

Glad to show examples.

Coop


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Old 03-14-2009, 09:37 PM
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Cal Ganshorn Cal Ganshorn is offline
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Thanks for your time and constructive suggestions.It has been much appreciated and needed-so much so that I was out looking for a new camera today. The Canon Power Shot 540 just does not cut it when you want to take quality pictures of knives, especially big ones.

I was looking at the Canon EOS Rebel XS. I know there are better cameras on the market, but I have no intentions of being a pro photgrapher, nor do I want to spent more than $600.00 on a camera. Any thoughts on this camera?
I am kept busy enough making knives.

Photographing them is a lot of fun and a real challenge.
When I saw the "floating knive" that Buddy did it wasn't 10 minutes and I was busy building a jig to support knives to get that effect.
Here is a picture of one of my "Floating knives" and a top and side view of the jig I made.




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Old 03-15-2009, 12:52 AM
Barbara Turner Barbara Turner is offline
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Cal,

Thanks for sharing your idea, I will have to try something similar.


Coop,

Thank you for clarifiying how to cut out an object.


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Last edited by Barbara Turner; 03-15-2009 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:27 PM
Barbara Turner Barbara Turner is offline
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Cal,

Buying a camera can be a daunting experience. It is difficult to give someone advice because it is a very personal decision, but I would go to the store and physically try out the cameras to see how they operate. I think either the Rebel XS or XSi would serve you fine for taking knife photographs and if later you decided you wanted a general purpose camera it would fit that bill as well. I have listed some links below that you may find helpful. I would probably choose a kit as you would save some dollars on a lens that way. If you have additional questions please don't hesitate to ask. Since you are in Canada, Henry's or a local store may also be a good place to purchase from.

Cal this is the link for the Rebel XSi without lens
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...SIB&Q=#reviews

This link for the Rebel XSi with kit lens
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Si_a_k_a_.html

This link is for the Rebel XS with kit lens
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...SKB&Q=#reviews


This link gives reviews on the different Canon cameras and available lenses. I refer to this page as it's very helpful when trying to make decisions.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...ra-Review.aspx


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Last edited by Barbara Turner; 03-16-2009 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:50 PM
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Barbara...You are welcome, and I suspected most, if not all, of the things I mentioned were things you might already be doing.. Those are the kinds of things that most of us trying to take good knife photos try early on. I mentioned them just in case.. I really appreciate your friendly reply..


Coop.. I'm concerned now about my monitor. I agreed with your initial comment that the blade had a slight blue tint to it. I edited the photo at night, in my kitchen with track style lighting. The kitchen has off white walls. I usually use some of my daylight bulbs near my monitor when I edit pictures without natural ambient light, but I just didn't bother this time..(It shows..)

Anyway, I have been messing around a bit with the variations tool, and used it to darken the "mids" on my picture. I have found that by doing this, sometimes a knife with darker materials can be made to "pop" more with boosted contrast.. (Just for background, I use a baby version of PS that is 5.0 "limited" that came with my camera.) It is still a very powerful program, and with my limited editing skills is mostly still a mystery to me...For reference, the upper limit of contrast I normally use is about 7-10 clicks, sometimes much less. I honestly can't remember but I think I used about 13 or 14 clicks on this one.. I was trying to pick up the small twists in Jerry's Damascus...

The lasso tool and sharpening you did was great. I can see a big difference, and I dig it.. However, here's the rub.. The color correction you did made the picture appear orange/red on my end. I went to get the knife, and background paper, and held them up to the monitor in daylight. I have to say, the true colors are closer to my original. If the corrections you made look more true on your end, I'm behind the 8 ball..

I remember way back in the day when you sent Buddy and I the "gray scale", and how much better my shots came out when I got the contrast set properly. Before I spend time looking for a monitor calibration program, is there a similar simple test I can try to check the colors scale? I'm inclined to trust your equipment, and eye, and if the adjusted image you posted looks correct to you, something is wrong on my end.. Maybe a high quality print to compare to the monitor?? Will early generation flat screens, (5 years..) slowly loose specific color bands? Maybe I can send a few shots to you where I think the color is dead on to compare with your monitor?

Thanks again Jim.. Best, Rich
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