what gives black etch in damascus?

[Dan Graves]

what gives black etch in damascus? I use 1095 and 15n20 or nickel. What I am wanting to know is what is the element in the steel that makes it black? Is it magnese and if the steel had a higher magnesium content, would it be blacker?

[Don Hanson]

It is the manganese.

For an example, 1084 will etch a lot blacker/darker than 1095 and has around twice the manganese.

W2 has less manganese and etches a lighter color of gray.

01 is high in manganese and etches very black.

Nickel and manganese are the two alloys that most effect to color of steel when etched.

Heat treat also effects how black or dark damascus will etch.

[Larrin]

Carbon and Manganese, definitely. If you really want black, get your hands on some O2. It's scary dark. O1 is widely available and is high in manganese, however.

[rhrocker]

Good info guys, thanks. Larrin, is O2 compatable with 15n20 as a damascus makeup?

[Don Hanson]

Larin is right, 02 etches the darkest of any steel I've ever used. 02 has 1.6% manganese, 01 has around 1%, 1084 has around .80%, 1095 around .40-.50% and W2 around .20-.30.

Low manganese steels are best for hamon.

High manganese steels are best for damascus.

Robert, I have mixed 02 with 15N20 with great results, problem is 02 is no longer being made and just about impossible to find. I have a large chunck (4"x6"x4") of 02 that I've been bandsawing slices off of, I just welded up two billets today with it. Good stuff!

[rhrocker]

Don, I'm really wanting a super good contrast. In the past, I've made a lot of 1095/15n20, and as you slowly pull it from the FC, it's beautiful, just what I'm after. Then, after the normal cleaning and so on, the black is on my fingers and in the sink, and off of the blade.
I constantly see nicely contrasted blades on the forums, and I'm guessing the way it's kept black is to extend the etching period to make the 1095 deeper, wash with running water and fingertips, lightly, and let it dry. Later, after drying, apply some oil to bring out the black. No buffing or heavy sanding though. Am I going wrong somewhere?

[Larrin]

Sometimes getting brighter 15n20 layers can help, after the first etch, hand sand them and then go back in, it might take more than once. Just switching from 1095 to 1084 or O1 might help as well. I think O1 might be alittle harder to forge weld than 1095, but with our welding techniques it's never a problem, so I don't know. Try 1084 anyway.

[Don Hanson]

Robert, a deeper etch will help but switching to 1084 will really give a much better contrast. Aldo Bruno has 1084 listed for sale on most of the forums. 1080 also gives a much better contrast than 1095.

[AchimW]

Don, O2 is still made on a fairly large scale over here in Europe, where it is called 1.2842 or 90MnCrV8. I have hundrets of pounds of it in form of thin, clean, ready to weld sheet material of several thicknesses. Unfortunately i think it's too expensive to export it to the USA. We used about 1700 pounds of it in our latest damascus billet.

And yes, it gets really, really black.

Achim

[rhrocker]

Don and Larrin, thanks. I have about 20 sticks of 1084 that I got from Maize(sp?) but it's
.25" thick, so I may need to stack the 15n20 (it's the normal thin stuff you get from the knife supply houses, this came from Kelly C.)
I've learned enough here in this post to go try some things, thanks! Larrin, is my 500 LB LG still sitting outside in the cold?

[Dan Graves]

You guys zeroed in on why I wanted to know. More of a contrast in my damascus. I bought some 1084 a year ago from Admiral steel and it just didnt give as good a result as 1095. Now I think what they sold me was 1075 or something else. Good to know the alternatives. Thanks.