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The Sheath/Holster Makers Forum This is the place to discuss all forms of sheath and holster making.

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  #1  
Old 06-10-2006, 03:29 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Holster and Belts - a How-to and Info thread..

Since enough folks have asked for this info and since the poll I ran regarding other leather work was overwhelmingly positive I am going to start this off and make it a sticky - please let's try to keep things in this thread in the "learning" mode:

Quote:
Out of curiosity, is there a resource for what holsters are appropriate for different time periods?
TexasJack asked this one on the Frontier Holsters DVD thread but I'll answer here:
regarding Frontier/Old West holsters there are two outstanding books available, both offered by Zon Publishing and they are sold by Amazon and others:

1) Packing Iron - Gunleather of the Frontier West
2) Cowboys and the Trappings of the Old West

For those interested in modern style holsters, such as concealment rigs I can't offer a lot of help as to patterns and such, but I do recommend you seek such help out either here or on the Louder Than Words forum: http://louderthanwords.us/forum/ many fine leather artisans in the modern genre, such as Lou Alessi, hang their hat there................


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  #2  
Old 06-10-2006, 03:39 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Cartridge belt help:

CWP asked about this and again I'll answer here:
Producing a DVD on this one is a ways down the road but in the meantime I suggest the two books above for examples and the pattern pack offered by a very good maker and student of the Old West, Will Ghormley.

Regarding loops, and again this is for 19th century and early 20th Century western gear, here's some info from one of the F O Baird holster pattern packs available from several vendors:





Some things of note:
1) DO NOT over dampen the leather - leather swells when wet and will shrink in thickness when dry, leaving your loops loose.
2) I use the second "machine" method even when hand sewing as it's faster and I generally use 3/4 oz leather for hand gun cartridge loops and depending on the style, 4/5 oz for shotgun loops
3) The most widely used loop width for handgun cartridges on 19th century cartridge belts was by far 1". 3/4" was sometimes used, but mainly on the late 1880-90 wide money belts with two rows of loops.
4) For shotgun loops 1" or 1.25" works good.
5) While he recommends 6 cord linen thread I generally use 4 or 5 cord - linen or hemp of course being the correct threads for the Old West period........

There are a few other period "tricks" for sewing loops, but this will answer "how-to" make them. This method also takes into consideration that leather is NEVER consistently thick so I ALWAYS double check measurements with each new cartridge loop strip even when cut from the same hide.
Actually I sew loops seldom - full woven or semi-woven are my preferred choices - they are not only Period Correct and faster to make, but also stronger - that sew line can/will cause a zipper effect - I've repaired MANY more sewn loops in the last 40+ years than either of the woven styles.

Hope this helps and as always other mileage WILL vary.............


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  #3  
Old 06-10-2006, 07:40 PM
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Thanks Chuck, I might have to try and tackle a cartidge belt soon.

--Carl


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Old 06-11-2006, 12:45 AM
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OK Chuck, another question:



on this image you posted in the other thread, I can see what you mean by the full woven loops. Two questions about these:

When you cut the slots, do you punch a hole on either end and slice between them?

Do the round spots do the securing or do you also stitch it?

If I'm not mistaken, that looks like the mexican loop from the video.

Thanks,
--Carl


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  #5  
Old 06-11-2006, 09:49 AM
Tony Graves Tony Graves is offline
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Chuck

I feel like I am about ten thousand leatherworking hours way from work like this.

I just wanted to say Thank you for your direction and help.

I have said previously if you can not tutor in a master's shop, a well designed and photographed book or DVD is the very next best thing. Your recommendations are helping shave a tremendous amount of trial and error off our efforts, not to mention the frustration.

Tony
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  #6  
Old 06-11-2006, 01:10 PM
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OK,

I finished it!

Couple of things, this is an odd combination and I screwed up really bad, but here goes the pictures.

Holster first:


Holster with revolver in it, fits great:


And Finally, the holster w/revolver on it:


Chuck makes learning how to do this seem easy, and does a great job getting the context and reasons across, so you can modify to fit you're own needs. This one is styled after the mexican loop in the video, but I have taken a lot of liberties with it to make it fit a modern large frame revolver. Although not what the cowboys carried, I think they would have if they could have. Revolver is a 44 Mag Taurus Ti revolver that weighs all of 28 oz.

Now, has anyone spotted the screw up? It's subtle, but I am right handed, and I made a left handed holster

This seems to happen to me a lot. I have to get that figured out.

Anyway, I got some good practice and will make another. I actually have a carving Idea I would like to try, so maybe on the right handed version.

--Carl


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  #7  
Old 06-11-2006, 01:56 PM
Hot&CoaledForge Hot&CoaledForge is offline
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Very nice, Carl. I was mulling over the idea of doing one for a 1911 but wasn't sure how it'd look. You've convinced me to give it a go. Oh, and good news, the one you made isn't a lefty... it's a right-handed cavalry style with the butt forward. - Jim
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2006, 02:32 PM
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Ice Tigre Ice Tigre is offline
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Start carrying cross draw........ problem fixed!

That was my solution when I couldn't buy a lefty holster for my gun.


Gary


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  #9  
Old 06-12-2006, 09:08 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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AHA! The bane of holster makers - I have several still unfinished "wrong" side holsters cut out! One of these days...........

Carl - very nicely executed..........While I always find it difficult to critique work based on web images, I THINK I see a couple of comments to make -

1) The stamping looks a little "washed" out, usually a sign that the leather is either not damp enough which sometimes happens with a surface wetting or it was still too wet, a common "error" even amongst though us of us who should no better. Now on my work, which is always aged, I sometimes do this deliberately as it helps give it that "well used" look and that look may be waht you were going for, therefore - nicely done!

2) The other is the stitching looks a bit close to the edge and the edge doesn't look rounded off? It's hard to tell exactly due to the shadows. Getting too close is again a "common" problem - the fix is to set your stitch line in at least a quarter inch or more (if more adjust your pattern slightly larger). Once sewn the edge can then be trimmed/sanded to look "right". The edge rounding will then come after. This may sound like nit picking but well rounded edges are one of my "things" As Sandy, The Godfather of Moo, has often said to me - "good leather design is like a wgood woman, they should both have curves!"

Some options you might consider on holsters, especially for shorter barrels:
1) use a single wider loop
2) Use a single or double riveted loop - rivet a separate loop to the skirt - which can be made tighter fitting than the slitted skirt type.

BTW - either pattern I used can also be easily turned into a a later style such as the Tom Threepersons - designed by Tom and famed leather man Tio Sam Myres. Just trim away the skirt and sew it to the back of the holster body - here's a pic of the original:


That can then be easily turned into Elmer Keith's version, the old George Lawrence model 120, by adding a snap on safety strap as seen here in an original:


You could also sew a belt loop on as done with the slim jim and/or add a second built in belt slot behind the guard to make it more secure - helps keep the grip from 'flopping' out:
Here's my version of this style - my favorite hunting carry rig (that's my Ruger BH - 45LC 300grnWFN at 1200FPS):




Quote:
I was mulling over the idea of doing one for a 1911 but wasn't sure how it'd look.
Jim - Ask and ye shall receive -

By Frazier of Pueblo Saddlery.........


As carried by the real "Lone Wolf" Texas Ranger M. T. Gonzaullas - maker unknown


And my favorite - basically a Threepersons with a skirt and riveted loop - maker A. W. Brill for Texas Ranger Dudley White - I'm making one of these for Capt Jim Tighe, it'll be a real Texas BBQ Rig when done with holster, belt, knife and sheath, and spare mag carrier


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The beautiful sheaths created for storing the knife elevate the knife one step higher. It celebrates the knife it houses.
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  #10  
Old 06-12-2006, 09:23 PM
Sandy Morrissey Sandy Morrissey is offline
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I really like the small skirt and tight rivited loop on the Brill holster. This type was a comfortable holster type to wear and very neat looking! The Tom Threepersons holster was my favorite "off duty" holster when I was on the St. Petersburg, FL PD in the 50's and a preferred carry by most of the detectives, small for gun size and hi-riding for max concealment. ---Sandy---


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Last edited by Sandy Morrissey; 06-12-2006 at 09:27 PM.
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  #11  
Old 06-12-2006, 09:27 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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GREAT minds do think alike don't they!?!?

How's it going Pappy? That sciatica still giving you fits!


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The beautiful sheaths created for storing the knife elevate the knife one step higher. It celebrates the knife it houses.
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  #12  
Old 06-12-2006, 11:19 PM
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Thanks Chuck, I missed it until I had it finished. Oh well, practice.

1: It was too wet. I let it sit overnight, but should have left it out of the bag longer.

2: I did round the edges. I did put the stitching a little close to the edge.

It was good practice, I am looking forward to doing the next one. Thanks for all of the feedback, you have a great way of presenting the material.

--Carl


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  #13  
Old 06-13-2006, 09:24 AM
Hot&CoaledForge Hot&CoaledForge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Burrows

Jim - Ask and ye shall receive -
Thanks much, Chuck. Seems they can look pretty good with a 1911. - Jim

Last edited by Chuck Burrows; 06-13-2006 at 09:34 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-13-2006, 10:11 AM
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TexasJack TexasJack is offline
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What a great thread!

Carl, the holster turned out pretty nice for a first-timer! I got a great laugh out of the left-hand situation. (Told my wife, "See, it isn't just me that does stuff like that!!")

But then to get the great response and pictures from Chuck - and an additional aside from the great Sandy M. - really makes this a keeper!



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Old 06-13-2006, 01:49 PM
RICK LOWE RICK LOWE is offline
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What a great thread! Sure glad it's a "sticky" too. Knives, sheaths, guns, holsters all fit together. Lotsa good stuff. Thanks Chuck! By the way, I'm a big fan of your choice of carry for hunting. I use an almost identical rig and load just the same round for big hogs.
Rick
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