Fitting Guards

Now that I have a mill (yea!), I can start doing those fighters I love so much. So my first question is this...

How much over should I mill the notch on the guard before I fit it to the blade?
Answer: Not sure what you're asking here, Bob. I get the guard to fit as close as possible.

When do I drill my pin holes in the guard? Before milling? After milling but before soldering?
Answer: Mill the hole/slot to fit the blade, then put it in place, I sometimes even super glue it in the exact spot I want it, then drill it. I use either 3/32" or 1/16" drills. Clean the glue off afterwards.

If I am using 1/8" blade stock, such as on a hunter, how wide and deep should the guard stock be? What about 1/4" bladestock for a larger knife?
Answer: I generally use1/4", 5/16'" (most common) or 3/8" thick guard stock, just a matter of taste, and, usually, 5/8" is wide enough on a hunter. You'll end up with the front of the guard being 1/2" or less and it'll possibly get wider toward the handle, depending on how you shape that area of the handle. I taper my handles toward the front. Others actually make them flare toward the front.

On a fighter, generally 5/8" width is OK, however you might like to start with 3/4" width. Thickness can be any of the above, or parhaps, like my long guards, (1/2" - 5/8" thickness is most common), which can be up to 3/4" thick. My "long guard" is mostly used if the knife is going to be engraved, allowing more area for decotation.

On a sub-hilt I usually make the guard from 5/8" wide stock and the sub-hilt from 3/4" stock. This allows the handle to get a little wider as it swells toward the middle of the handle.

Let me know if I didn't understand/answer your question(s), OK?
Happy New Year Everyone!

Rather than adding a new window that you'd have to scroll back and forth for answers, I just edited the questions and added the answers above.

On the first question, my only concern is that if I am going to use solder, should I leave a little wiggle room so the solder can get under the guard.

Don't worry, it'll get under there, unless it's SS and then it won't. It's terribly difficult to get solder to flow through a stainless joint.

I'm awaiting a new solder that might solve that problem. Check out the 8th item on this forum for more of my thoughts on soldering. The tight fit is better than the loose fit, if you ask me.

Stainless is not that hard to solder if one uses the correct lead free solder and good quality specific flux for stainless steel. Just keep the temperature and amount of heat to the minimum to allow the solder to melt but not to burn the flux or get the solder to oxidize or "ball up" on the surface.

Thank you for your input. I surely do have a hard time gettng the solder to flow through a joint when the blade is SS (ATS-34 or 440-C) and the guard is also SS (T416).

What solder and flux do you recommend?

I am going to try a past solder and a heat gun, which I hear works VERY well.

Anyone out there had any experience with either of the above?

Steve, I have no experience with a heat gun/paste solder, but I will say that soldering has been the most frustrating aspect of my knifemaking. To a point, in fact, where I won't even do it any more. I am sure it is a matter of practice, but without someone who knows what he is doing standing at your elbow, you don't even know what mistakes you are making.

I have tried the Loveless technique of using an industrial soldering iron with a heavy, slotted copper tip. I have tried the propane torch. I have given up on all of it. Even when I got a saturated joint, I found cleanup to be absolutely impossible to the standards that most would find acceptable. I'd be willing to learn, but I have quit experimenting on my own. Any encouragement you can offer would be welcome.

Don, I'd first suggest checking out these two threads on this forum. Then, if I can clarify anything, please let me know. No paste in the mail yet, but I'm anxiously awaiting it's arrival to give it a try.

I hope these following comments help a bit. (The second one is pretty long!)

pub42.ezboard.com/fcustom...D=11.topic

pub42.ezboard.com/fcustom...D=10.topic

Thanks, Steve. I'll do some studying.

I have some experience with the paste solder that I would be happy to share with you all. Get you some Allstate 430 Flux and their paste flux. Mix some of the flux in the solder jar to the point it is runny (you want it to be thick enough to stay on the guard but thin enough to spread evenly). coat the inside of the guard and slide it on the knife. If it is a double guard, coat the ricasso area before putting on the guard and then wipe off the excess. Make a pin from your guard pin material (I use 303 for the guard and 309 welding rod for the pin, 416 is harder than 303 and will stay "raised up" when you go to finish the guard)and put a THIN bead of flux around the guard at the joint. Keep in mind where ever you put flux, the solder will stick, guaranteed!!! I then take a heat gun and apply heat to the bottom of the guard. I used a tourch for years, but the heat gun is a lot easier. When the flux starts to bubble, put a VERY SMALL amount of solder at the joint and run it around the guard with the pin you made. Use a flat piece of brass to clean up the joint. Works great. GenO Denning taught me this, and it has saved me many hours of work. Good luck Mark Hazen.

Great help, Mark. Thanks a million!

Jim Poplin loaned me a heat gun and I've only used it twice, but I agree with you, It is MUCH better than a torch!

I'll report more later after I get some more experience, but I am gettng solder clear through the joint and a very beautiful fillet around the blade on the front. It isn't flowing like a tool steel and N.S. joint, but it's quite good. No smoke, no burning of the flux, almost no fumes, etc. What fun!!

Thanks again!

Where do you get this solder? I have two heat guns, but never thought about using them for soldering guards. What a neat idea, thanks for sharing it with us.
Mike

The heat guns are great, at least I think so, so far. They are bit slower than a torch, but MUCH more even/uniform in the heating, which I feel is critical, and less messy, you'll love 'em! You can actually see what's happening with the flux/solder, etc.

As far as obtaining the flux/solder, just call James Poplin @ Pop Knives @706-678-5408 (4 to 8 pm EST). He either has it, or will find it for you.

Or, I'm sure the other knifemaking suppliers would be able to hlep, also: Koval, Knife &Gun, Sheffield, Texas Knifemaker's Supply, etc.

Or you may want to contact the manufacturers:

All-State's distributor locator is at: www.esab.com/html/esabna01.html

I've used some Allstate paste (from POP) and also a sample of Eutectic's 157PS paste. However they, and Jim Poplin, recommended also using a bit of their EutecSol #682 flux to get a better wetting on the SS. You can get in touch with Eutectic at this site:

www.eutectic-usa.com/distributors.html
They sent me to Salt Lake, who sent me to a Tech. Rep in the next town south of me and he got me a small sample bottle to try. It's expensive stuff, you should know, so see if asample is available to see if you like it first.

I'm going to try the suggestions from Mark, above, too.

Maybe there are specific item numbers we need to know, Mark?

Hey Guys. I order most of my "stuff" form Pop Knives @706-678-5408 (4 to 8 pm EST). He carries the paste and flux and just about everything else you could want to make knives. Plus he is a super guy to deal with, will help you out any way he can. Honest guy. The paste I use for the above mentioned procedure is Allstate 430. I may not have made myself clear on the flat piece of brass thing. I use a scrap piece of 3/4X1inch by 5 inches long brass bar that I have flat ground the corners on to make them sharp. This will not scratch up your blade or your s/s guard. A little trick to save your knuckles: with the tang of the knife in the vice and the blade facing up, hold a piece of scrap wood behind the guard as you push the brass bar along the guard/blade area to clean up the excess solder. The bar of brass will run into the wood and keep you from ripping off the top of your knuckles. I hope I decribed this procedure well enough. If I had a dig. cam, I'd take a picture and post it. I have a 10X15 shop and on cold nights I leave the heat gun hanging on it's hook, and let it run. In about 15mins. it will warm up my shop real well. Well I've purged enough information from my brain for one night, I think I need a nap now. You all take care, Mark Hazen