Let's acknowledge this white tenite m15 knife

[samg]

Look at the uneven spacing of the screws on Ronnie's M14, as precise as Bo and Bill Platts was, maybe with those early Solingens being off centered, prompted Bo to drill them in Orlando. Who knows huh? Fun to speculate though.

Regards, Sam

[cut_n_run]

Originally Posted by crutchtip

the brown misidentified Low "S" blade in your photos

Jack, that's an ORLANDO blade on my brown micarta Model 14--my SOLINGEN is a Model 15 with black micarta (thank you, Joe). [click here for picture]
-Steve

[Jacknola]

Sam, what I am suggesting is that all those original ricasso-stamped Solingen blades had three holes drilled in Germany, as per the blueprint specs given to the USNavy, as per the prototypes sent to Germany in May, 1954. However the middle hole was not used to install handles on the Solingen Tenites... The hole was simply ignored and only the two outside holes were used.

That is why I said if someone pulled a handle off a ricasso-stamped Solingen, whether Tenite or Micarta, they would probably find three holes, the center one being unused for anything. And that includes blades used for m17s and m18s (Joe noted that early m18s presumably using the ricasso-stamped Solingen blades had three holes in the tang). The only other alternative is that the shop itself drilled holes in the Solingens as needed. In that case, the blades came from Germany with no holes drilled in the tangs, and any Tenites made after some period, say late 1955, would not have an extraneous center hole.

I would suggest that the shop quit drilling three holes in their own Orlando blades as soon as it became apparent that there was not going to be a significant government contract... probably in later 1955. But of course the 500 each m14s and m15 Solingen blades had already been received.

Personally I think it possible that the first re-order of Solingens in 1963 continued to have three holes integral to the blades.. but shortly thereafter, once screws were not require the manufacture process was probably simplified eliminating the hole-drilling step. Again...I've found that what makes good business sense is the path that the shop usually followed.

[samg]

Originally Posted by Jacknola

Sam, what I am suggesting is that all those original ricasso-stamped Solingen blades had three holes drilled in Germany, as per the blueprint specs given to the USNavy, as per the prototypes sent to Germany in May, 1954. However the middle hole was not used to install handles on the Solingen Tenites

Jack, I don't think this theory holds up, as the spacing of the 2 hole M14 Solingens is closer spaced than the outer 2 holes of the 3 hole solingens. On the 3 hole M14 solingen, the hole closest to the hilt is closer to the hilt than the 2 hole solingen.
Compare spacing below.

I think your later comment probably more likely

Originally Posted by Jacknola

The only other alternative is that the shop itself drilled holes in the Solingens as needed. In that case, the blades came from Germany with no holes drilled in the tangs, and any Tenites made after some period, say late 1955, would not have an extraneous center hole.

Regards, Sam

[samg]

With all being discussed about 2 holes and 3 holes, in the 1962 catalog, the photos are shown with 3 holes. These are ricasso stamped solingen blades. Perhaps the question is, if Bo had established and drilled 2 holes in earlier 1950's knives, why were these offered with 3 holes? Left over 3 holes that they didn't want to use that were pre drilled in Germany? I could see why. If Bo had decided to change to 2 hole, he could've notified Solingen to change to new 2 hole pattern, or cease drilling them, then put all the 3 hole Solingens in the bin for a later use. In this case, the M14 kit knives. Just a theory.

The blades in the 1962 catalog are ricasso stamped.



Note** The knives from Hunts book were made in 1965 and have the etched stamp out on the blade, indicating that next batch Jack was referring to.

[crutchtip]

sam -

look at the photo on the first page of this thread of the early model 15. Note the spacing is very wide between the two bolts. There is a third hold in the tang between those bolts. I don't think it was much time before Bo realized he could use two bolts to fasten the tenite and make it look a bit more uniform in bolt placement. No big deal. We know RMK drilled the Orlando holes, so if he had to drill another in a Solingen, no problem.

I have to check, but I think the bolt location was molded into the tenite to make bolt location standardized.

[samg]

Joe, the original subject knife of this thread has a different spacing from the 3 hole version. Note the space difference between the hilt and 1st screw on both. Screw is closer to hilt on 3 hole. Same on Ronnie's M14.
Same difference on M14's
So IMO either Solingen changed the spacing to make 2 hole, or Orlando did.
Based on this, I don't think there is a middle hole in the tang under the tenite.
In the overall scheme of things, it's no biggie, as you say, but it's fun to speculate and talk about it.
Thanks for your input Joe.

Photo top is original prototype M15, bottom is thread subject knife M15

[crutchtip]

You are looking at the wrong knife. The one below. I promise there is a third hole.

[crutchtip]

Curious as to why a moderator has to approve your post?

[Jacknola]

Or.. the shop simply drilled another two additional holes in between the existing 3-holes supplied in Germany. I wish I could look underneath the Tenite in one of these. But I also wish I could see the blue prints.

Joe, I was rushing to comment on my early impression of filled screw holes in Micarta in relation to drilled holes in Solingen tang, and wanted a pictorial. I grabbed the wrong brown Tenite picture out of my files, using your Orlando blade with single filled hole instead of a Solingen. I'll fix it later when I post on other line. By the way... dang fine knife.

I don't know about a moderater approving or whether you are getting a message or something, but when I first joined my first few posts were delay posted for review just in case I was a troll or bad guy. Same with posting pictures. That review deal went away pretty quickly if I remember.

[samg]

Originally Posted by crutchtip

I don't think it was much time before Bo realized he could use two bolts to fasten the tenite and make it look a bit more uniform in bolt placement. No big deal. We know RMK drilled the thong holes, so if he had to drill another, no problem.

With the back screw hole being in the similar location on both 2 & 3 hole models, to balance the holes for a 2 hole configuration, the front hole would have to move further away from the tang. So if Bo did just convert the 3 holes from Solingen, that new front hole placement would be real close to the original front hole. I don't know if that would create an issue for drilling or not.
It could go either way I guess.
Here is my illustration of what it might look like.

[Jacknola]

Well, it is an interesting but trivial point I suppose.

Whether the original Solingen blades were drilled with three holes in Germany, or the blade blanks came to the shop undrilled does not negate the 3-hole nature of the first batch of Orlando-blade knives sent to be evaluated. Those would have most likely been made to the spec of the blue prints or they would not have been accepted for testing, in my opinion. And those ten knives only one (Clinton's) has shown up. Are the other nine in a US vault somewhere, including those five with the 3/8-in stock?

Still, whether any more hard info is gained, this is entertaining and new information is seeping in.. I like that. Ciao

[BoBlade]

Jack / Joe / Sam / All: Great thread! I wish I could contribute, but 14's and 15's never interested me and and I haven't done any real research. So....., I am learning along with everyone else. I hope it keeps going for a while.

[samg]

I agree Ron. My first Randall that I received was a M14 from my brother, and I was so impressed with the workmanship and heft. Plus these early M14-15's were developed in my birth year, so that makes them special to me.
There were models that were developed that have an outstanding story attached to it, and these 2 military models are one of them.

Originally Posted by crutchtip

Curious as to why a moderator has to approve your post?

I missed this question Joe. Not sure I understand it though?

[crutchtip]

I tried to post with a copy of the photo from the first page of the 15 I was talking about. You are looking at the wrong knife as an example of three holes. Window popped up saying a mod had to approve the post.

I just realized it is the one that has been on eBay for a year I guess.