GPC's for sale...by catalog!

[KNAdmin]

A well designed backspacer refines the folder, for sure, smooth or filed. We had one available in G10 with the DDR-I, if you guys remember them in the start. Darrel made us kill them, even pulling them out of the handle sets that we had, because he never liked their look on the finished knife. I know that several of you reading this were the ones asking why they were not sent originally.

I'm the one that talked him into doing the new versions. It's actually part of a interframe upgrade that Jerry and I have been begging for. An interframe without a backspine looks a little unfinished, so I requested that he take the opportunity to have some extras available for us, for clients that do request them, which they have all along. It'll never be part of the base kits we now have in the stores.

I'm glad you guys like the GPC's. When I first saw what Darrel described it as in my mind, it was a damascus interframe with black lip mother of pearl and gold anodized spacers. What we now have available is essentially the core of what I saw. Eventually, I want the family of componants available in rough form for that knife to be conceivable and workable from within this design. That was Darrel's intent all along. As your skill increased, you would have the materials available to build them to the highest level imaginable, but only if you possessed the skills needed to refine them.

Again, the materials are never going to make themselves into a perfect knife. You will have to apply the creative glue. When you can, and do, you won't have to worry about your work being recognizable, it will be. In some of your cases, it already is. I look for the day when one of you breaks out and becomes "Knifemaker of the Year". When that day arrives, I'll be the guy in the front row.

Alex

[Darrel Ralph]

Dennis,
Please understand that our intent is not to make anything easy.
We just want to supply folks the pallet to create their vision. Finishing an oversize backspine into one that is fit and finished seamlessly is not easy by any means.
My post above is not intended to be mean spirited in any way either. We are hoping to turn heads with the well thought out options that will be available for you to build on.

I have to admit that sawing a back spine out with a hack saw will make you sweat. This takes a person with a strong will.

Some folks dont have the time and extra income to buy saws and drill press's etc. So we have to provide for the mass's that are interested in making kits.


This is a good example:
The interframes and damascus blades and bolsters for the new kits. I feel the top level folks around this ranch should be getting in line for these items. These upgrades are what will separate you cowboys from the pack. I can see a fully engraved interframe with black lip pearl inlays (special custom order inlays) coming from one of you ? How about a Damascus blade and bolster on a gpc with BLUE walrus ivory scales, file worked to the nines? UM UM!

File worked backspines? How about an inlayed backspine with small pieces of black lip pearl in them or gold bars going up and down the backspine spaced very neatly?. Go internet surfing for some Lloyd Hale folders. Lloyd used to inlay the backspines on his knives. They are still sweet...even to this day!
There is plenty to do on the kits. An inlayed backspine will take you a good week to do if its right. Dovetailing in those little pieces of pearl or gold is a real challenge without chipping or scraping them. How will you hold them in place? Try filing the rectangular groove to a precise size, then using a triangle file to make a dovetail that is the same size and spacing down the whole backspine. Get out your magnifying visors. You will need them!


The backspines will be large enough on the outside to just touch up and crown for creating a dome for rope file work that is just above the surface of the liners. This looks very nice mirror polished....

I can go on and on here about ideas for these kits.

The surface has just been scratched.
Do you want to spend time creating the pallet for yours vision OR creating the vision itself?

Darrel

When are the first gpc pictures going to be taken?
I cant wait to see them!

[Osprey Guy]

Kelly-
I think you read too fast...
My objection was cleared up by Darrel.
I was upset at the idea of finished stainless backspacers being made available to all...

Darrel has explained that when they do offer backspacers, they will be rough much the same way current scales sold by knifekits.com are rough, and require some finishing before use. Many of us (you included) went to the trouble to learn how to make backspacers, and we had to sweat a bit at the same time, I felt that others should go through a similar process. There was never any mention of diminished value, but rather I spoke of our personal accomplishments becoming less valuable, without offering up an explanation everytime we showed a kitknife. Ex. "No, this is not one of those out-of-the-box spacers, I made this one myself!".

I have absolutely no problem with rough scales that have to be finished, as I wouldn't have any problem with similar rough spacers...as long as the maker went through some kind of learning curve and NOT just pulled from a package and screwed it together and "voila"...no fuss, no muss...Yes, that would bother me somewhat!!! Especially, if it showed up on a table next to mine. They might as well put a production knife down next to one of yours and say it's the same thing!

Coop, I stalled for a moment in this response and happened to scroll down to yours posted while I'm writing this one.
(I don't remember that happening in real time before...Alex is getting quick ) Anyway, I could have sworn you'd made a stainless backspacer, hell you've made everything else!!! Maybe that's the bar, uncharted territory...I don't know.

I just know that, there should be some amount of effort...doesn't have to break your back, just so the outcome is not absolutely predetermined...you know, like our skill has got something to do with how the knife turns out! I misunderstood and thought the steel backspacers in question would be completely finished already to screw in place.

Again, I want to emphasize...Of course I want to share all knowledge, I don't think I've ever demonstrated to the contrary...we all feel that way don't we?

I'm sorry, but I still disagree about Jerry's comparison to the knifemakers complaint. Making the stainless backspacer does not involve learning a new set of skills,...which is at the heart of the knifemaker's complaint. You need many new skills to make a blade! (as you and I are both finding out) As you said yourself, making the stainless backspacer is no different than making a backspacer from wood...just more work! So, why make it for them? Do Darrel and Alex and Co., have to make it so easy that no work is required at all?

I thought it fine when the original kits were offering the G-10 spacers...gave us something to work from. As we got better and more ambitious, we made our own backspacers from wood, Micarta, steel, whatever,...it made our work more unique and more special. If backspacers were made completely finished in all materials possible, don't you think we'd loose something in the process...it's one of the more important components of embellishment, of customization...don't you think it best to leave this important component as is, or at least roughed out, with the outcome based on the makers skill and not how well they bought?

Believe me, each time I make a stainless steel backspacer it turns out a little different. If they came completely pre-made, would any of us bother with the hassle again of starting from scratch?

It does make a difference...

Dennis

Yeah Baby!

Edit: Man, we're leap froggin' all over each other...just a small comment to Darrel: the 2nd kit I ever made was a DDR-II with Carbon Fiber. It came with that black G-10 backspacer. With my limited tools and ability, I thought it might look cool if I cut out pieces from the G-10 and inlay Mother-of-Pearl!! Check back, it turned out pretty good actually. I sold it to a cousin of mine up in Chicago...I got $200 bucks! Not too shabby for the 2nd kit ever...

[Darrel Ralph]

Dennis,
Once again your point is well taken . I feel we have addressed it by making the backspines oversize on the inside and outside of the knife. This will require finish work. If you are filing these backspines to size I would think it will be a full day of blisters on your hands to finish up.
No its not cut and paste at all. Nothing that we are offering will be cut and paste. Every new option will require work on your part except the blade. I just feel this is a big hurdle for most folks to jump without much practice.

The interframes sound easy... The inlays are always hand final fit with sandpaper and patients , into the pockets. Then the handle will require contouring side to side. Hand rubbing pearl inlays to get a nice sheen with NO scratches in them will make you stop, scratch your @&& a few times if you do it right. What about the seamless fit your are after? How do you finish the stainless frame to the pearl and make is seamless? These materials are different hardness's. The sanding will eat one of them away faster than the other.
There is no beauty like pearl when your done with it.
Anyone want to pony up for this task?

?

Darrel!

[Osprey Guy]

As an epilog to all of this, which by the way in my opinion, ended quite well. ( I'm more than satisfied with the answers I got! ), I want to mention that before, during, and after all of this, I've been busy getting ready a rough set of cocobolo scales(using new step-down drill for the holes) along with a matching rough cocobolo backspacer.

This is being sent out tomorrow to my dad along with a GPC kit...all at his request. he asked me to do this since (he knew) I had one of the new templates... He told me yesterday, that he would like to have a stainless backspacer...I suggested that it might take a while for me to get to it as I have much on my plate. An oversize stainless steel spacer would be just the ticket for him right now...like his son, he likes to do his own work

Alls well that end well

Dennis

Yeah Baby!

[Osprey Guy]

Darrel-
More leapfrogging...
I know what you mean about the trying to sand that MOP inlay. When I glued it into the G-10, I just about drove myself crazy trying to sand the two materials until they were even. I finally got it to the point where it looked good and fit fairly good (not perfect I admit...I was young and inexperienced way back then-in April )

The new stuff sounds wonderful and challenging (my favorite part, ...next to all the pats on the back the guys give for a job well done.

The GPC so far is terriffic. I'm really looking forward to the GX, that's got embellishment written all over it!

Dennis

Yeah Baby!

Late edit: Looking back over previous page, I read again my reference to traceable filework patterns. Just to point out I recently went to the trouble of posting a tutorial on my latest pattern. I simply meant, they should not be able to trace it as they would lose in the learning process. Any pattern can be figured out if you take the time to think how it was accomplished.

Darrel- I already have a very large photo file on Hale and his incredible work. One of my recent filework patterns was inspired by one of his!

[J. Hartt]

It took me about 30 minutes to read this thread and I am glad I did. Bob you sure are passionate about you knife making, and I can appreciate that you were a bit ticked off at the start of this thread. Making something that starts out as a bag of manufactured pieces and finishes as a piece of working art that you have wiped your blood, sweat, and tears off of many times is like nothing else. You know where ALL the mistakes are, but when you show the finished piece its always amazing that they cannot find a single error.
I have said this before, for me knife making is an art, a science, a test of your wits, an outlet for creativity, and ultimately an obsession.
J. Hartt

P.S. Bob , I only wis that I had some of your wits and creativity.
TTYL

[J. Hartt]

OOOOPS, I meant Dennis. Sorry.

[Osprey Guy]

J. Hartt-

That's all right! My good friend Bob (Sigmon), who jumped in here along the way, has his share of knifemaking passion as well! Seems to me this thread has had more than it's share of passionate guys!

Thanks!

Dennis

Yeah Baby!

[BigDB]

I agree with Coop, this is a great thread. I can see both sides here. I hacksawed my first and every backspine since I started. I am now hacksawing bar stock as I work on grinding blades. I can attest to the work involved with that blasted @#$??? saw!! I agree that I wouldn't want to buy a "snap-tite" kit either. I actually "cheated" and got a set of the predrilled cocbolo scales for one of the 5 GPC's I just received in the mail. Yes, I do kinda feel that it is cheating, but darn, they look good!! I do like the sounds of what we have in store from Darrel and the boys and will probably always get some of their new products, just for the simple fact that I have learned an incredible amount from working these kits and from these forums. I think I am going to contact a guild member nearby my houseand see if I can get some hands-on training with him. I am not quite sure how to approach him, his work is quite intimidating to a newbie. Do a search for some of Jim Minnick's work and you'll see what I mean.
Anyway, less typing an more knifin' is the call of the day, let's get to it!!!
Dan

[Bustard]

Yes Knifekits.com is growing. It does feel good to get our products in national supply houses etc.


Jerry, Barb, Alex, Darrel,
Team Knifekits!

Ehm ehm... International please, Jerry knows...

[ghen]

Originally posted by Bustard



Ehm ehm... International please, Jerry knows...

Yes I am happy to announce that with the concerted effort of the sales team, and a little advance work from the "Milan Connection" Classic KnifeKits products will soon be available through one of the leading dealers in Italy, selling throughout the European Union!

Molto siamo eccitati !

That means "we are very excited!"

Peace

GHEN

[Bustard]

Expect to hear again soon by the "Milan Connection", I am not finished introducing your products to stores here in Italy...

[Osprey Guy]

Classic KnifeKits are absolutely world-class products. For international distributors, carrying these great kits only makes perfect sense.

There's a world of knife lovers waiting to discover what we already know!

Congratulations to the team.

Dennis

Yeah Baby!

[Darrel Ralph]

BigDB
The Minniks are great folks. I feel if you just give them a call and ask they will be glad to give you some pointers.
Your also not far from the Columbus Ohio area. I BE HERE!

Hey guys . They make metal cutting blades for jig saws....
Got one?

PLUG AND PLAY NO WAY!

Dennis
Hales work is some very early examples of what the mind can do went put into the creative mode. Lloyd was one of the first to expand on excellent designs on the back of the blade.
Lloyd is a gold lip pearl guy also. WOOOO that stuff is sweet.

I hope to see some inlayed backspines soon.

Darrel
PLUG AND PLAY NO WAY!

Bustard: Welcome!