MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-15-2017, 08:35 PM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 8
New to forum, want to make fillet knifes

Hello everyone, I am going to thank anyone beforehand for any knowledge they wish to share.

I was thinking about getting into knife making (because fishing and shooting and insert expensive hobby here wasn't enough already) and was wondering the best way to go about it. I'm looking to make some fillet knifes as well as hunting/skinning knives and possibly pocket knives, mostly for gifts. I inherited a plethora of steel tools from my grandfather a while ago and would like to start using them. So far I have a metal drill press, various metal drill bits/milling bits, disc/belt sanding station machine, dual 8 inch grinder, and a load of taps, dies, picks, gauges, bits, clamps, etc that one could expect a tool and die making employee for a large automotive company to own. I have pretty much any tool I would need to cut and shape metal to become a knife as well as any polishing tool needed once the knife was ready to be polished.
From the research I've done it seems like I will also need these things:
Forge for heating and various tools to handle heated metal
Quenching system
Heat treating equipment

Can tempering be done in you stove oven? We have a dual oven with convection lower that can get as hot as 600 degrees but that's it. I am also a little nervous about reading that you need LN to cool the pieces once they are HT. Seems like a bit of technique that is well above my level of skill.

Any advice or knowledge willing to be shared is appreciated!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-15-2017, 08:51 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NC Mountains
Posts: 470
Lots of questions that I will defer to the more experience guys but to put your mind at ease about a couple of those last questions.
Yes, you can temper in your own oven or even a toaster oven. Just dont trust the temperature settings to be accurate. Get a good accurate thermometer so you will know the temp. 600 degrees isn't necessary, most tempering is done under 500.

LN isn't necessary for producing a good blade. Some guys want to tweak aas much as they can out of a steel and opt for using LN to do that. Many knifemakers, heck I'll guess most, dont use LN.

You can use a forge for HT some of the easier carbon steels but you'll soon want to go beyond that and will not be able to get optimum HT with a forge. So unless you plan to build a cheap forge(and they are fairly easy and can be cheap to build), you can buy a HT oven for not much more than a good forge and it will enable you to get much better results and use some steels that just cannot be suitably HT in a forge.


__________________
Find me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/gpopecustomknives/

Gloria In Excelsis Deo!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:13 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
I want to tell you a thousand things, but I'll wait and think about it for a while.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:28 PM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Thanks for clarification on some stuff. I've seen some yupube forges made out of coffee tins and fireproof material, and als some that use firebrick in a hole in the ground with a shopvac blowing over coals, they seem easy to make but not sure about the safety level of them. I have some O-1 tool steel and was hoping to be working with it, since it's readily available and is not super expensive. Are there better steels that are easier to work with regarding heat treating and tempering?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:17 PM
PoolQs PoolQs is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 359
There are many here that will be able to answer a lot of your questions. I like to use Aldo 1084 because
you don't need a fancy set up to make a good HT and is a very forgiving steel. Many knifemaker's send
their blades to professional HT'rs. I send all my stainless to Peter's and have never had any issues.
I am able to do the rest and not have that big expense.

(Shameless Plug) Hopefully Ray will be chiming in soon. He has a couple of DVD's on "All about making knives"
They are step-by-step on EVERYTHING you need to know about making a knife, sheath, and HTing.

Good Luck, Have FUN, and stay sharp!!
Troy
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:10 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
SteelP

I have no qualms whatsoever about using O1 in a forge. Can you bring out the best it has to offer? NO and you can't with any other steel either in a forge.(what's the temp?) Personally I think O1 is quite forgeable and the sweet spot HT temp is 1475. It should be held there for 10-15 minutes, but you do not have a HT oven. Forge will have to do. O1 is as good as 1084 in a forge. I use 1084 hardly at all, but I do use O1. Learn your temperature colors and read up on O1. I was a heat treater at a machinist shop and am very familiar with 1475 degree temp and color, O1 is resistant to being overheated, but will over heat so be careful. It is superior to 1084.


__________________
Now it says Guru and it used to say Master. I think I like Master better, though skilled would be the best description
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:33 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
Oh I ment to address the liquid nitrogen thing.....Don't even worry I said 1084 carbon because that you can heat treat in a forge and canola oil NO Liquid nitrogen.....you can do that with most carbon steels 1084 is the easiest start there....NOW I do use liquid nitrogen but that is because I don't use carbon steels I use stainless but to use stainless you need a $2000 heat treating oven the temperatures need to be exact wich you cant accomplish in a forge so unless you want to use stainless and want to spend 2 grand on a oven and 800$ on a container for the liquid nitrogen....don't worry stick with 1084 now you don't need the liquid nitrogen
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-16-2017, 07:10 AM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Thanks for the help everyone, I'm gonna set out to do more research today. Would stainless steel be a must have for a knife that would see occasional salt water use? The reason I ask is not for fillet but was thinking about also making oversized bait cutting knives that need tombs able to cut through semi frozen fish that are about an inch in diameter, but have the possibility of seeing a splash of salt water or two during their usage for a few hours before being able to be cleaned.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:04 AM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,838
Stainless steel is not a must for salt water fishing but it does have obvious advantages for some types of knives. Most stainless steels benefit from LN but can work just fine without it. The good news on stainless is that it is easy to send it out and have it professionally heat treated. The carbon steels you should heat treat yourself in your forge or furnace.

As for fillet knives, we will be starting a new KITH in a few weeks and it will be about fillet knives. You will want to at least follow along with it and possibly even participate ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:03 AM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 8
The sander is a delta twin purpose sanding station thing. It has a 6 inch circular backed sanding disc and a 1 inch backed belt.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:42 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
Yeh ray is right (as always lol.....ya know I have been trying to catch you slipping with a wrong answer for years now and really I think I am giving up it just doesn't happen LOL) but yes most stainless is HELPED by liquid nitrogen not needed

I did a search on the delta grinder and couldn't find exactly what you were talking about can you take a picture of it? my best guess especially the fact its only a 1 in belt probilly a 1x30 it wont be the best tool for the job but is it possible to use it yeh probilly. The 2 main factors are #1 the motor it might not be strong enough to put in bevels, I am sure you could do little touch up work with it deffinitly sharpening maybe after the bevels are in you might be able to go up in grits to get a better finish but I doubt it will have the power to remove a lot of material like creating the bevels...but hey I may be wrong it all depends on how strong the motor is.....Secondly is the belt size you said 1 in so probilly a 1x30 but ok the best way I can explain it is I have a 2x72 grinder the belt is a lot biger so your belts are going to wear out much quicker than mine just because there isn't as much there....even with my 2x72 belts wear out on each knife IF I start with 60 grit to do the bevels I use that for 1 knife and never again (sometimes if it has a lil grit left ill use it for profiling but never for bevels OR going up in grits....I am sure if you took a pic some other people would chime in to...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:45 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ny
Posts: 1,438
SteelP....You may have your "private messages" turned off. if you turn them on in the user control panel I will send you a couple things that might be very usefull to you....or email me
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:16 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
I have a 1x42 Delta belt grinder with an 8" disc on it and I used it for years and still use it. I also have a 2x48 belt grinder as well made by Dayton with a 3/4 HP motor. It is very high speed and great for hogging steel, but not so much for handles which is what I use the Delta for mostly now. I have made quite a few knives with the 1x42, but it isn't ideal, but you learn to work with what you have.


__________________
Now it says Guru and it used to say Master. I think I like Master better, though skilled would be the best description
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:40 PM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Delta belt/disc sander combo.

Here is the delta I have. It's a Benchtop unit and isn't the biggest thing in the world but I think if I repurpose the motor to be a dedicated belt only unit I could get it to work.
Sorry if the pictures are big i don't know how to resize for this forum.



Another option would be to make an attachment for my drill press which has beyond enough power to run a 2"x**" belt. I'm thinking something that can bolt to the drill press table and just swivel the table 90 degrees so it's not directly underneath the press and take the belt off of the drill machine and run it to the top of the sanding unit.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-18-2017, 11:44 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 1,345
I see that is 1/4 HP so I'm guessing a 1x30?

A drill press doesn't have an enclosed motor and that is a problem, my 1x42 Delta doesn't either, but it has a motor that is some distance from the grinding and I keep it blown out. Metal chips can and will short out an electric motor. My Dayton is a TEFC or totally enclosed fan cooled motor. If you want to get serious about knifemaking sooner or later you will have to go with the enclosed motor, but you can minimize damage by getting some canned air (or compressor) and keep it blown out. I have had my Delta for years and still going strong, but I am aware of it's limitations.

The pulley system on a drill press would definitely give you some speed options as you want to slow down for some materials like wood or synthetics. What HP is the motor on the drill press? Mine is only 1/3 HP and would not really be suited for heavy grinding. To give you an idea my 2x48 has a 3/4 HP motor. The big 2x72s start at around 1 HP+ and go up from there for variable speeds and such. Even the Harbor Freight 4x36 has a 3/4 HP rated motor though not TEFC. I used a 2x48 Kalamazoo for years and they were pretty good, but they had Baldor motors and if you think that doesn't make a difference you'd be mistaken. A high quality motor will last for years, but not a cheap motor.

If you are thinking about running belts off the drill press quill you will ruin the press by putting too much side pressure on the quill/spindle as they are designed to drill straight with little to no side pressure. Many a drill press has been ruined because somebody bought a cross travel vise and thought they'd turn their press into a mill. Even drum sanders you have to be careful with on a drill press.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice, art, belt, degrees, dies, drill, fishing, grinder, handle, hobby, hot, hunting, knife, knife making, knives, make, making, metal, pocket, pocket knives, press, sanding, skinning, steel, tools


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First Knifes willied2111 The Newbies Arena 0 02-09-2009 10:03 PM
My first two knifes. Shankmaker The Newbies Arena 4 09-19-2008 01:10 AM
new knifes Scream?n Snake The Outpost 4 05-24-2007 02:53 PM
anyone make fillet blades? Mut Knife Making Discussions 1 03-29-2004 01:47 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved