MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena New to Knife Making? Here's all the help you need ...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-13-2017, 03:31 PM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Denmark
Posts: 58
Bough o2 sttel, it came hardened.. What now?

Hi All

So, i just bought some o2 steel. And it turns out, its already hardened?
I was sure that when you bought steel it would come annealed..?

It didn't say anything about the state of the steel on the webpage.

What can i do now? Can i try to anneal it my self, I dont have a kiln or any vemiculite or souch. Should i just try to send it back and get my money back?

Hope you have some advise.

Last edited by Rasmus Kristens; 09-13-2017 at 03:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:36 PM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,662
O2 isn't commonly used for blades over here but it will serve the purpose. As far as I can tell it is normally sold in an annealed state. Why do you think yours is hardened?

Anyway, if you are certain it is already hardened then you may as well send it back considering your lack of tools to deal with it. That begs the question though of how do you intend to harden it if it was annealed? Pretty much requires the same tools ....


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-14-2017, 02:51 AM
epicfail48 epicfail48 is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Springfield Mo
Posts: 54
When you say hardened, it is "skate a file" hard, "knife" hard or just "harder than mild steel" hard? Beyond that, how are you coming to the conclusion its hardened? I'm not trying to be insulting, just curious at the process, file test, is it hard to drill or cut, etc?

At any rate, if it is fully hardened, annealing isn't too hard, least not for simple carbon steels like the o1/2 family. Get it up to critical temperature, round 1500f, then cooling it slowly. You don't need any special equipment, sticking the bar into a hot charcoal fire and letting it burn itself out, then cool in the ashes will do it. Won't be a perfect spheroidal anneal, but it'll do more than enough to make it workable
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-14-2017, 03:13 AM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Denmark
Posts: 58
Well, it came with black scale on it.
And with a skate test, and the fact that my hand saw didnt catch at all, i'm pretty sure its fully hardened. I'm not sure if it's tempered or anything, it doesnt state that on the homepage.

I just ordered some o1 from UK, so I think I will try to send the o2 back. I don't have the time or patiente to also anneal the steel.

@ray, After i normalize the blade, I do a very low tech charcoal and canola oil austenization. I do it based on colours and magnets. Just like os many other beginners :-)

Thanks for your input.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-14-2017, 03:30 AM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Denmark
Posts: 58
Update!

So the vendor just wrote me. He tells me that the steel possible could be hardened at places due to being laser cut. Does this seem plausible?
The steel is 1/8" thickness and 1" wide, can your combined experience tell me how deep the hardening may go from the cut edges?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:34 AM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,662
Yes, a laser will heat the steel more than enough to make it harden. It won't be properly hardened but it will be too hard for average cutting tools to handle. Can't say how deep the hardening effect might be but could easily go 1/4" (6mm or so). I'd send it back and find some cold rolled steel (you have hot rolled) that was sheared or sawed to size ...


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:35 AM
Ed Caffrey's Avatar
Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Posts: 4,223
Send a message via AIM to Ed Caffrey Send a message via Yahoo to Ed Caffrey
The laser cutting explains a lot. Anytime a carbon or alloy steel is "cut" using heat, there will always be a "heat affected zone" (in other words the steel will harden to a given degree all along the cut, and in many cases, the internal structure of the steel is so adversely affected, it's non-recoverable ). Usually that portion of the steel that is affected by the heat is considered a loss...... and must be ground away. Generally the heat used during a cutting operation is so high/intense, that heat affected zone is non-recoverable...... at least for the average knifemaker.

How large the "heat affected zone" is, depends on the settings/heat of the device used to cut the steel. It can range from just a few thousandths from the cut boundary, to as much as 1/2".

There are basically three options..... 1. Grind away the entire "heat affected zone". 2. Try to anneal the entire piece of steel....which may or may not be sucdessful. 3. Use this as a learning experience, and buy another piece of steel....making sure that it's NOT cut with heat.


__________________




Caffreyknives@gmail.com
"Nobody cares what you know.....until they know you care."
See me at table 2Q at the Blade Show!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:30 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: putnam county NY ....about 45 mins north of new york city
Posts: 1,355
I would agree with everyone that say just get a new bar. But if you really want to anneal it....I don't work with carbon steel much but when I first started I did and what I have done to anneal it is to heat a few pieces of steel (the thicker and heavyier the better....go to home depot and get perlite (link below) heat up the thick pieces of steel and throw them in a bucket with the perlite this big pieces bring more heat to the bucket and it will cool slower then heat your piece of steel and burry it in the pearlite then I just put a piece of sheet metal over the bucket to keep air from getting to the stuff inside and just walk away and come back tomorrow....this probilly isn't the best method but I found pearlite easily at home depot verimiculite I would of had to order....it has worked for me in the past but I have never used that specific steel either.....I would get my money back and get better steel tho ......just my opinion
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-14-2017, 01:36 PM
Ed Caffrey's Avatar
Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Posts: 4,223
Send a message via AIM to Ed Caffrey Send a message via Yahoo to Ed Caffrey
I suspect it would be a LONG trip for him to go to Home Depot..... he's in Denmark.


__________________




Caffreyknives@gmail.com
"Nobody cares what you know.....until they know you care."
See me at table 2Q at the Blade Show!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-14-2017, 04:17 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: putnam county NY ....about 45 mins north of new york city
Posts: 1,355
HMMmm I thought home depot was every where lol I am sure there is some equivelent
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-14-2017, 04:36 PM
Rasmus Kristens Rasmus Kristens is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Denmark
Posts: 58
I just put an anglegrinder to the edge to check a bit deeper, and after a few mm the steel turned real soft :-) im going to try my first friction folder, so If the steel isnt the best it will be okay if i screw it up.

Concerning home depot. You would think its equivelent is present in All cointries, but when i hear the kind of cool stuff you can buy there, i can asure you there is No souch equivelent in Denmark...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-14-2017, 06:22 PM
epicfail48 epicfail48 is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Springfield Mo
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmus Kristens View Post
I just put an anglegrinder to the edge to check a bit deeper, and after a few mm the steel turned real soft :-) im going to try my first friction folder, so If the steel isnt the best it will be okay if i screw it up.

Concerning home depot. You would think its equivelent is present in All cointries, but when i hear the kind of cool stuff you can buy there, i can asure you there is No souch equivelent in Denmark...
Its all crappy tools and even worse building supplies, you aren't missing much
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:48 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: putnam county NY ....about 45 mins north of new york city
Posts: 1,355
Yeh one thing we have a lot of here in the states is variety....as far as "chain" hardware / tool stores go I would say home depot is a mid level store. some stuff at lowes can be slightly higher quality lower end would be harbor freight....they all have there uses for example harbor freight is deffinitly the cheapest but the quality of there stuff matches the price. so lets say I would buy things that you want higher quality like I would never buy there band saw blades...however there are some things that are simple enough you don't need high quality a while back I bought a shop press from them the most recent buy was a air tank I chopped up to make a forge. I also get things like nitrile gloves there and some soft microfiber towels
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
annealing, back, blade, blades, carbon, cold, drill, file, fire, hand, handle, harden, home, hot, knife, knifemaker, make, making, question, scale, simple, special, steel, thickness, tools


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Differentially Hardened D-2 Harris Heat Treating and Metallurgy 1 03-10-2014 03:39 PM
Does everything need to be hardened and tempered LoneGoose The Newbies Arena 9 04-21-2012 05:15 PM
Differentially hardened D-2 Boshi Heat Treating and Metallurgy 2 10-24-2010 11:44 AM
Hardened stop pin Slaughter The Folding Knife Forum 4 10-13-2002 09:45 PM
GRINDING HARDENED D-2 KandSKNIVES The Newbies Arena 4 11-24-2001 04:37 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:06 PM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
CKK Industries, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved