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  #1  
Old 12-21-2016, 11:42 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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Trouble putting an edge on 1084

I have been having a terrible time getting an edge on my knives made from 1084. I am used to sharpening my folders which are all production knives made from high end stainless. I grind them to a burr and finish with a paper wheel. They are extremely sharp and will hold an edge well. My knives from 1084 I do the same thing but cannot get rid of the burr properly. It's not visible but I can feel it ever so slightly, almost feels soft where as the burr on my folders is hard. On my latest knife I have made out of 1084 I have tempered it at only 350 seeing if that would allow me to put a better edge on it which it did not. My only thought would be that somehow it is getting to hot when I am putting the final edge on the blade but I don't think this is the case.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2016, 07:15 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Different blades steels must be sharpened in different manners to achieve the best results. Personally with 1084 and the type of grind and edge I use... I use a worn out 400 grit belt, and if I want a "bitey" edge, leave it at that. If I want a "hair popping" edge, after the worn out 400 grit, the blade will get a LIGHT buff on each side of the edge to remove the burr.

Keep in mind that I use convex edges.....the sharpening is done on a slack belt. I dislike "angles" when it comes to a blade's edge.

Again, there is a profound difference in sharpening stainless versus carbon/alloy steel... I suspect you just need to find/learn the methodology that works.


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Old 12-22-2016, 08:18 AM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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I actually do about the exact same thing using a 220 belt and then a worn 400 belt. I grind the edge on the slack and then put it on the buffer or paper wheel to remove the burr. I just can't get the burr to come off all of the way. There is a micro burr left and while it will get very sharp if I use light enough pressure, as soon as I cut even the softest of material it flips the wire edge to one side almost as if the steel is soft.
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Old 12-22-2016, 08:38 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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The burr on stainless is likely to be much more brittle than the burr on 1084, I see that in my knives. I have several methods that I use to remove the burr. Sometimes a hard leather strop, just roll the edge a little on the leather as you pull the blade.

I also have a plastic stick that came from Razor Edge and is designed to remove a burr. Draw the edge through the plastic (cut into the plastic lightly) to peel off the burr.

Sometimes I'll just slice lightly into a fresh piece of stiff cardboard and that takes most of it off.

A large 1" diameter ceramic stick is also good.

After doing one of these things I don't worry too much about it any more. Whatever little bit of wire might remain will come off when the knife is used ...


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Old 12-22-2016, 08:49 AM
damon damon is offline
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take a block of hardwood, put the edge of the blade on it.... draw the knife back like trying to take a slice. you just need the knifes own weight. this should rake off that stubborn bur.

I had a similar issue with a cheap kitchen knife. couldn't get rid of bur. one of the older makers I know told me of this trick. though ive never had this happen with 1084. sounds like something is off with HT, or over heating the edge some how. I use 220-400 grit, then paper wheel too on 1084 and W2 blades without having had that issue.
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Old 12-22-2016, 09:52 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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One thing about what you said about changing the HT by creating heat on the edge. You have to be quick and keep a wet rag handy to wipe the blade down after swiping it across on both sides. Kyle you said you use a worn out 400 grit belt for finishing? No No No, use a sharp belt for putting the edge on and when you are sanding the blade use light pressure always and be patient, remember it's only to finish the edge and an edge is real easy to overheat. For sharpening I cannot over emphasize using fairly sharp belts, they do not need to be new, just not worn out as that maybe is why you are getting the bur. What grit is your finishing wheel by the way?

I get rid of burrs by hand sharpening, so I can't help you there Kyle, I think it is the best way to finish an edge. My first instruction on how to sharpen by hand was simply pretend you are trying to slice an apple real thin. It works if you can maintain your angle. A big if for some folks.lol
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Old 12-22-2016, 09:57 AM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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Thanks for all I the suggestions. After reading through all of the methods to get the burr off I am thinking something is happening to make the edge really soft. There is just a tiny little wire on the edge that you can't see and it seems no matter what I strop it on or buff it with it just rolls to the other side. I'm going see if I can get a few pics of it under 100x magnification and maybe it will give me a better idea of what's going on.
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Old 12-22-2016, 12:03 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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So I put the edge under magnification and it looks like like the opposite of what I thought. It looks like there are tons of micro chips out of the edge but I can't find a burr. I'm going to play with it some more and I'll try to get some pics up tonight.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2016, 02:23 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxh...w?usp=drivesdk


I will try to get some better pictures up tonight, this is all I could get for now
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2016, 03:21 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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Just saw your post Jim. I am using a 400 grit belt that I have done a few bevels with. I usually only do a pass or two on each side with the 400. The belt is still sharp as it only gets a few passes for each blade but it's definitely not new.
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2016, 05:28 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Interesting way to do the picture. I can see the little chips out of the edge you were talking about but what's with all those deep looking scratches just above the edge?

Anyway, from the chips it looks like your edge might be too hard unless your efforts with the buffer etc is simple beating the crap out of it ...


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Old 12-22-2016, 10:06 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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I am thinking the deep scratches are from the 220 I originally used to refinish the edge. They are only in a couple places that I must have missed with the finer grits. The edge was taken down to 1200 before polishing.i m going to try and chop a 2x4 and put the edge back under the microscope and see if it is a lot more chipped or how exactly it is getting so dull.
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Old 12-24-2016, 07:56 AM
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Just curious, how are you controlling the heat on your initial hardening quench? Oven...Magnet...Eyeball? and what quenchant medium at what temp?
Why I'm asking is that there is the potential for quenching the blade at too high a temp that can cause edge holding/sharpening problems as well.

I've used a lot of 1084, and have always been able to remove the final burr with either a light buff or leather strop.


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Old 12-24-2016, 09:14 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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I am using a small gas forge. I am taking it to nonmagnetic and then, with the lights off taking it up until I see the shadows in the metal and testing it with a 1500 thermomelt pen to be sure. Then I am quenching it in 3 gallons of canola oil that is at 125. I move it back and forth in the oil for about 15 seconds until it's down to about 150 and then let it cool to 72 and temper
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:16 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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Couldn't think of the term for the shadows but it is convalescense. I have tested a bunch of sample pieces of metal by breaking it and looking at the grain and found the what yields the smallest sized grains which turns out to be around 1500
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