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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 12-04-2005, 12:36 AM
Bryan McCall Bryan McCall is offline
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Upset w/ Texas Knife Makers heat treating.

Sent my first S90V blade to Texas Knife Makers for heat treating. Finished out knife, looks great by the way, and was in the process of selling it. My Dad works for Bell Hellicopter and has access to their hardness tester. It tested out to 44.8!!!!!???! He thought it might be a mistake. Tested it a few more times. All measurements were the same. He tested the calibration of the machine and it was dead on. So, do not send your blades to TKM. Who can I trust to do it right? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Bryan
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2005, 06:13 AM
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SharpByCoop SharpByCoop is offline
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First call: Back to who did it. Remember we are all human.

Do you mean Texas Knifemaking Supply? Texas 'Knifemakers' is painting a VERY broad picture on individuals.

Coop


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  #3  
Old 12-04-2005, 07:49 AM
Russ Andrews Russ Andrews is offline
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Bryan,
Put the shoe on the other foot. If one of your customers was upset with you;
wouldn't you want to know about it, and have a chance to make it right
before they made it public?

Also: In your shop, who's job is QC?

Just some things to ponder.........

Russ
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2005, 08:11 AM
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Robert Mayo Robert Mayo is offline
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Bryan
I agree with the posts above you should always check to see if the problem can be solved with the people you have dealt with. Then if there is no results you have the right to be upset and make this public.

Bob
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2005, 08:20 AM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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It sounds to me as if the steel may not have been identified correctly, either when you bought it or maybe not being clearly marked for the heat treater.

In any case, the heat treater should have checked the hardness himself and notified you about the error.

In many cases, though, the steel is batch heat treated with a sample of the same steel, then only the sample is hardness checked. If this was the case, then the steel must have been mis-identified.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2005, 10:59 AM
A T Barr A T Barr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Robinson
then only the sample is hardness checked. If this was the case, then the steel must have been mis-identified.
This is why I use Paul Bos. In all the years I've sent him my blades, each blade had the small detent to show it was tested.

Stay Safe,

A.T.


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  #7  
Old 12-04-2005, 01:38 PM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A T Barr
This is why I use Paul Bos. In all the years I've sent him my blades, each blade had the small detent to show it was tested.

Stay Safe,

A.T.
Right, A.T. That's why my blades have 3 hardness check marks.

I think I'll just make the 3 dots my trademark.
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  #8  
Old 12-09-2005, 05:08 PM
Bryan McCall Bryan McCall is offline
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Sorry I have not been able to check on my post. Things at the post office have been very busy and I pretty much eat, sleep, and work right now. Scratch the sleep part.

Ok...first, more clarification. I do not have a "shop", as in employees. I just do this as a hobby. Second, it is Texas Knifemakers Supply. Third, I know it is S90V because I ordered it from Crucible and picked it up at Crucible in Arlington, Texas. Fourth, I handed the blade to the gentleman at the Spirit of Steel show in Grapevine. I filled out some paperwork and he traced my blade on the back of the sheet so as not to get it mixed up with other knives. It was clearly marked on the paper as being S90V. We also briefly discussed the heat treating process and the temps required of S90V. I feel that even at 42.7 rockwell hardness, it will make a great knife. I ended up selling it to a friend of a friend, well under what I would have sold it for, who knows that it is only 42.7 rockwell. He didn't really care so long as he could carve up a few deer with it.

Russ, TKS can not make it right. I enjoy their great attitude with customers and I will continue to order supplies throught them, but the damage is done and I will not trust them to do another heat treatment for me. My intention is to find out who can do it correctly so I can send my blades to them.

Who is Paul Bos and how can I get a hold of him? Does he have a website?

Bryan
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  #9  
Old 12-09-2005, 05:32 PM
A T Barr A T Barr is offline
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http://www.buckknives.com/downloads/...s_Brochure.pdf

A.T.


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  #10  
Old 12-09-2005, 05:39 PM
Russ Andrews Russ Andrews is offline
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Bryan.
Paul Bos is a great heat treater, perhaps the best when it comes to blades.
In the 70s-90s he treated more than a few blades for me & never missed
a lick.
Since I forge & "roll my own" so-to-speak" I no longer have his contact
info.
I believe though, that his new address and phone no. were posted on one of the
forums recently.
Russ
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2005, 05:57 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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Bryan, just a piece of advice:

Get a little cheapo vibro-engraving tool. Whenever you make a blade to send off for HT, scribe your initials and also the steel variety in the tang somewhere. It is one last checksum for the person loading the furnace.
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  #12  
Old 12-09-2005, 06:08 PM
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tmickley tmickley is offline
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This doesn't smell right some how...
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2005, 07:21 PM
mdagley mdagley is offline
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I fail to understand why TKS can't make it right???????

Just guessing but at 44.8Rc I can't imagine S90v working out very well.
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  #14  
Old 12-09-2005, 07:45 PM
Sam Wereb Sam Wereb is offline
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I agree with Tracy and can't wait to hear the rest of this.
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  #15  
Old 12-09-2005, 08:01 PM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdagley

Just guessing but at 44.8Rc I can't imagine S90v working out very well.
I hadn't noticed the decimal reading (.8).

That makes me wonder if your Dad read the hardness tester scale correctly. I don't remember seeing a tester that reads in tenths of thousandths.

There are usually 2 or or more graduations on a Rockwell tester dial. Could he have read the scale on the dial incorrectly?

Could the preload weight have been dialed in to another rockwell reading rather than Rc?

If the blade is only 45Rc, a file would cut it very easily.
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