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  #16  
Old 06-15-2001, 05:26 PM
Roger Gregory
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Max
Great tutorial. This one is saved, printed and saved again. Now I won't mind going back to work on Monday. i have two contacts, tree surgeons who are going to provide me with chainsaw chains, all their cast-offs.......

Thanks Max!

Roger
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  #17  
Old 06-15-2001, 07:02 PM
MaxTheKnife
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No Terry, these two are the first true Scagel patterns I've tried. You saw the Scagel type blade I forged while at the show. The blade just wasn't a Scagel pattern. I tried with the handle but missed that pretty bad too. He he. I guess I'll pick it up sooner or later if I keep trying.

And you're welcome Roger. My pleasure.
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  #18  
Old 06-15-2001, 11:40 PM
Bill Foote
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WOW! GOOD tutorial Max, it was the clincher that will make me build a little forge for all those chains my friends are giving me. Much needed stuff, great!
Bill
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  #19  
Old 06-15-2001, 11:47 PM
Bill Foote
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WOW Max, GOOD STUFF! It's the clincher for me to build that little forge and weld the chains my friends have given me. Interesting steel, will make great knives. i'll bet my Harley friends will buy a Harley chain Bowie! The Scagel repro is very nice.
Bill
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  #20  
Old 06-15-2001, 11:56 PM
Bill Foote
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ooops...sorry for the double post. I'm getting an error during a reply now.looks like this........................................ Request Error - Message not understood: #closeAn error has occurred executing your request.
Message not understood: #close

This error has already been logged and will have immediate attention. If you wish you may send an email to errors@ezboard.com.
Please give any information you may feel would be helpful in determing the cause of this problem. Thank you. 0 200 OK Server: SmallWebServer/2.0 Date: FRI, 15 Jun 2001 5:47:22 GMT Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 417 Request Error - Message not understood: #closeAn error has occurred executing your request.
Message not understood: #close


This error has already been logged and will have immediate attention. If you wish you may send an email to errors@ezboard.com.
Please give any information you may feel would be helpful in determing the cause of this problem. Thank you. 0 200 OK Server: SmallWebServer/2.0 Date: FRI, 15 Jun 2001 5:47:22 GMT Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 417 Request Error - Message not understood: #closeAn error has occurred executing your request.
Message not understood: #close


This error has already been logged and will have immediate attention. If you wish you may send an email to errors@ezboard.com.
Please give any information you may feel would be helpful in determing the cause of this problem. Thank you. 0 200 OK Server: SmallWebServer/2.0 Date: FRI, 15 Jun 2001 5:47:22 GMT Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 417 Request Error - Message not understood: #closeAn error has occurred executing your request.
Message not understood: #close


This error has already been logged and will have immediate attention. If you wish you may send an email to errors@ezboard.com.
Please give any information you may feel would be helpful in determing the cause of this problem. Thank you. 0 200 OK Server: SmallWebServer/2.0 Date: FRI, 15 Jun 2001 5:47:22 GMT Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 417 Request Error - Message not understood: #closeAn error has occurred executing your request.
Message not understood: #close


This error has already been logged and will have immediate attention. If you wish you may send an email to errors@ezboard.com.
Please give any information you may feel would be helpful in determing the cause of this problem. Thank you. 0 200 OK Server: SmallWebServer/2.0 Date: FRI, 15 Jun 2001 5:47:22 GMT Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 417 Request Error - Message not understood: #closeAn error has occurred executing your request.
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What does that mean?

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  #21  
Old 06-16-2001, 07:41 AM
Dana Acker
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Max, great work--and beautiful patterns there, Bro. In welding machine chain, would you do it the same--hammer on the side plates first (ie., have the side plates facing up for the first weld?)

Thanks again for sharing this with us, Max--it was a lot of work, I know.
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  #22  
Old 06-16-2001, 08:09 AM
MaxTheKnife
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Well, there are so many different types of machine chain it's hard to say Dana. I had a bad experience with machine chain at school. It was conveyor chain from some factory or other. It looked like good steel. It just wouldn't weld up. No matter what I did, it refused to weld together. And I'm a hardhead. I really tried. I wound up with a nasty looking lump of stuff that just broke up when I tried to draw it out. That's why I stick with chainsaw chain. It welds up almost effortlessly every time. Oh, I've had a few problems from time to time. Usually, it had to do with mixed company at the forge and cool, foamy beer. Beer doesn't work too well as a flux and it don't make your forging go any easier. I've learned something the bible doesn't help with. You know the passage. There's a time for everything under the sun. They should put 'a time to drink beer and a time to forge' in there somewhere

Anyway, give it a try following the same recipe as above and see what happens. Try a quench test on a section of the chain first though to save yourself alot of frustration for nothing. Let me know how it turns out. Oh, by the way, if you were talking about timing chains and like that I've heard they forge up pretty good. The small machine chain is what I was thinking about. I've got some stainless machine chain I intend to try when time permits. Probably be an excercise in futility but that's ok. I need the excercise
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  #23  
Old 06-17-2001, 08:15 AM
MaxTheKnife
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Here's a few pic of the larger blade I forged from that billet in the tutorial. The patterns really got wild on it as you can see. Looks like palm trees or something. You can also see that there are several inclusions on the blade. They won't be a problem in this case bacause they'll be ground out in the final finishing stages. I forged it larger than it had to be just in case my buddy needed to make any adjustments.


The inclusions on this one is minor. It's not a hollow cavity like you might think. It's actually very compacted carbon and flux that was trapped in the layers.

The inclusion by the choil is very serious in most cases. That would be the end of that blade if I hadn't forged it to a larger profile than I had to. In this case, it can be ground out during the fit-up of the gaurd. The other two are cosmetic flaws that will most likely come out after the final finishing and etching are done. In most cases, they blend in with the pattern and are unnoticeable.

I obviously wasn't paying attention to my folded edges of the billet. That's where the inclusion on the top of the spine came into play. Same with the one at the choil. The tang was forged in, so the curve at the top of the choil is actually the edge where the folds were welded. So, pay attention to that area when you're welding up your billets.

On chainsaw chain, it's a good idea to grind the folded edges flat so you can be sure it's completely welded up before forging to shape for a blade. If I'd done that this time, I would have found those inclusions and there wouldn't have been a problem. Hey, I'm new at this damascus stuff! I'll get better. Honest
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  #24  
Old 06-17-2001, 08:55 AM
ghostdog
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Man, I take a few days off from the internet and when I come back there is another great tutorial from Max. Think I will take another few days off.
Thanks Max, 'tis another keeper.

ghostdog
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  #25  
Old 06-17-2001, 12:18 PM
MaxTheKnife
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A few helpful hints


While forging up another billet of chainsaw chian this morning, I remembered something important that will make a difference in your finished billet.

When fluxing my billet, I use a small aluminum sauce pan. Probably about 1 pint size. Bring your billet up to a nice red heat and sprinkle on the flux evenly. You'll notice (if you got it hot enough) that the flux starts raising up off of the billet. As soon as I sprinkle all 4 sides of the billet, I use the bottom of the little sauce pan to smash the flux back down. Just sprinkle the flux on and as soon as it's on all 4 sides start smashing it down as rapidly as you can. Once the flux stops melting just scrape all the excess off with the edge of the pan. That way, it won't make as big a mess in your forge. The last thing you want to do is put the billet back in the forge with a thick covering of flux. Can you spell CLINKER? It will take all the fun out of it for you. Smashing the flux back down on the billet will cause it to melt down into all the voids in the billet and will make a heck of a difference when you're doing your finish welding to get a nice, smooth billet.

Your goal is to get all the chain completely smooth and welded for a nice finished bar of steel.
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  #26  
Old 06-17-2001, 01:33 PM
Dana Acker
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Man, those are neat Max. Very nice looking, Bro. I've got some Harley-Davidson Chain I want to weld up to make a knife for my brother-in-law, who rides, and loves custom made knives.
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  #27  
Old 06-18-2001, 12:57 PM
Diamond G Knives
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Max: Great tutorial. Thanks for the solid and helpful advice, you dont know how much it helps newbies like me! I have been meaning to get ahol;d of you and come see you in your shop. Ive only been home a few weeks, so Im still doing the honey do's, but i cant complain, we have finally agreed that i can put up my shop! Im in the process of ordering my 30' x 36' meatle building even as I write this!
Would love to get up to see you soon though. Keep up the good work!
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  #28  
Old 06-18-2001, 01:16 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Hey, that'd be great Diamond G. My shop is always open for visits. Where are you from anyway? Send me an email and let's get something set up. mburnett@cswnet.com

And you're quite welcome for the tutorial. You'd be surprised how much these little tutorials help me. It makes me think through the process step by step and put it into words. When I do that, it cements the whole thing in my brain pan so it's easier at the forge pan
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  #29  
Old 06-19-2001, 02:28 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Scagel neck knife


Well, I guess i'm on the Scagel style. I keep forging them up anyway. This little neck knife is from the little bit of damascus I had left over from my Scagel project. It turned out pretty cool. 3" blade, 3 1/2" handle with a copper guard, antler tine handle and nickel silver pin. I named it the Copperhead.

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  #30  
Old 06-21-2001, 08:33 PM
Glenn forty7
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Great tutorial!!! Thanks you solved a problem for me and I appreciate thsata lot--Glenn--
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