plasma cutting?

[tpithoud]

Has anyone out there used a plasma cutter to rough cut out baldes? I'm thinking about getting one.

[SeasonedWarrior]

Greetings:

I use my plasma cutter for all kinds of things and I love it. I use a Lincoln Pro-cut 55. It has a very small heat affected zone so that there are few problems with changing the properties of the steels and it will literally cut everything that is conductive (even some things that aren't if you can sandwich them with some thing conductive like aluminum foil) also there is little no deformation. The plasma cutters are economical to use since you cut with air and the consumables are reasonable also. Besides freehand cutting, I also use mine in a computerized cutting machine so anything I can scan into my computer I can cut.

[tpithoud]

Now that qualifies as cool! i guess you could set up a pattern in your computer for differnt blade profiles. what type of table is it or did you make it yourself?

[SeasonedWarrior]

It is basically an X-Y plotter that is hooked up to a computer. It is great for multiple cuts and the software that came with it even nests the parts automatically for most economical use of the metal. I got mine from http://www.plasmacam.com but there is a less expensive cuting machine that uses a template at http://www.torchmate.com look in the lower right hand corner of the home page and it sits on 55 gal drum fo water. The plasm CAM is the least expensive of the units I've found and uses you existing computer. I have upgraded mine myself with beefier servo motors and was going to make one but it was cheaper to buy the plasma CAM. There are kits available at Torchmate.

[PlasmaCAM]

For more information on the PlasmaCAM unit give Patrick a call at 719-676-2700 and he can give you more detail. We are here to answer any questions you may have.

[Ray Rogers]

Whenever I see a Newbie start out of the gate thinking about using a CAM system I have to wonder if he really knows what he's getting into. I know that's not what you originally asked about but that is the direction this thread is taking so you now get to hear my usual diatribe on this subject.

A plasma cutter is a great tool and if you want to use one to cut blade blanks then go for it. But, a CAM system is something that is for manufacturing, not knife making. They make sense for people who make fancy iron work but not for people who are interested in the craft of knife making.

There must be a thousand threads on this subject by now and I encourage you to to use the Search key and look them up. Read a lot of different opinions on the subject before you even consider going that way. One fellow summed it up nicely when he said he thought that a plasma CAM system would be efficient and save time and materials so he bought one. In fact, it does do exactly that. The problem was, now he had a couple of dozen identical blade blanks and he was making the exact same knife over and over and over. That's small scale manufacturing even if most of the work is done by hand and he realized he did not want to make cookie cutter knives.

If you are a Newbie you probably don't have many tools yet. The price of a plasma cutter can buy many of the other power tools you'll need. The price of a CAM system could outfit your entire shop.

CAM systems are great tools, very sexy, and they are a hoot to use. If you plan to be a small scale manufacturer then you should consider getting one. If you would rather be a knife maker there are better places to spend the money ....

[DaveRuhlig]

I think Ray summed it up. You can buy a whole lot of dremmel disks for what you would spend on a plasma cutter.
-Dave

[NJStricker]

Funny, we just talked about these a few days ago. What did we end up saying the start-up costs were on one of the units once everything was obtained--$15,000?

I thought it was a neat idea, especially for someone who likes high tech gadgetry. But like Dave said, that buys a lot of Dremel cutoff wheels.

[elginrunner]

I used a plasma cutter on the first couple of knifes that I made (still havn't made many!) It works great if you need lots of stock removed. I first ordred 1 1/2" stock and found myself really removing alot of material. Again it's dandy but you'll notice a darkened area around the cut. It turns the metal real hard (1095) a file won't touch it, so you have to grind all of the dark areas out, or your files won't last long, and cheap belts won't either.

Now I'm buying different stock sizes, so there is not that much to remove. Then I just use my bench grinder and my imagination...... (poor combo, but's it's all i got!!)

[Dan Graves]

I agree with Ray. Takes the art and craftmanship out of it. I have one and never use it to profile a knife. It has its use in a shop, (and not to step on anyone) but this forum is for hand made knives.

[elginrunner]

The plasma cutter I used was hand held.... Does that mean i still get to call my knives hand made?? Oh and the shape afterword was barely recognizable as a "knife like shape".... I just used it to hog off the big corners... : )

[skipknives]

if folks are going to split hairs,,what is the difference between cutting a blank out using a hand hend plasma cutter and an electric variable speed fully automatic, lazer guided 220 volt bandsaw? ?

[Ray Rogers]

Elginrunner,
By my definition your knives could be called 'hand crafted' or even 'hand made' depending on what the rest of your processes were to finish the knife. It's not the plasma cutter I was objecting to, it's the CAM part. Hand held or hand guided tools are the key to my definition of craftsmanship.

Skip,
No difference. And, in my opinion, we're not splitting hairs. The difference between doing a job by hand or with hand guided power tools and doing that same job by programming a piece of computer guided equipment is HUGE. Writing a program is no where near the same kind of task as doing the same job with hand guided tools even if YOU write the program.

Think of it this way: your boss tells you to do a complicated job. He even tells you in detail HOW to do that job. He hands you the materials needed and he supplies the tools that you will need for the job. Then he leaves. You do the job. The boss takes the credit for getting the job done even though you know you performed the actual task and even though you know the boss has NEVER in his life ever performed that task and does not have the skills needed to perform that task.

Sure, I know you can profile a blade. But, from there the next step is using CNC to cut the bevels and to machine the parts so precisely that no hand fitting is necessary. Where do we draw the line? My answer is, if you want to say you make knives then the line is drawn at using computer guided tools for any part of the process. If you want to bulk produce parts then that's fine too but, in that case, you should call yourself a knife manufacturer because that's what you would be .......

[DaveRuhlig]

I'm fairly new here, but i don't think I can count with both hands and one foot how many times the topic of "what defines handmade" has come up. It's usually followed by "Can I put my makers mark on a kit?". As you can tell there are some very strong opinions on the subject. Might I suggest a sticky is in order? Any volunteers - nudge, nudge - wink, wink - Ray?

-Dave

[Ray Rogers]

Let me give that idea some thought. I think such a document would need to be dynamic so that it could be refined over time since I doubt any one person's opinion (not even mine) will ever be accepted as the last word on any subject.

I'll work on it....