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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 10-04-2008, 10:17 PM
10es& 10es& is offline
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Newb grinder questions

Hi guys,

I am a newb to this hobby. First off I would like to thank everyone that participates on this forum, the forum is a wonderful tool to a new guy like myself.

A few months ago I started making a lock-back folder with nothing more than some 0-1, a file and a CHEAP Harbor Freight 1X30? sander. Quickly I got frustrated (mostly with the sander) and set the project aside and started re-reading a lot of the threads on this forum. The one thing that seemed to be consistent was there are a lot of happy knife makers with a KMG (or clone) grinder. So a long story short I have started making a KMG clone from some plans on the net and it is nearly complete.

So here are my first newb questions:

Not knowing any better I purchased a 2HP Leeson motor that runs 3450RPM, it now appears to me that this motor will be to fast for a three step pulley system.
At this time I cannot afford a 3phase with a VFD so should I cut my losses and purchase a motor that can run at approximately 1740 or will the faster motor work for the application?

If you could only afford 10 belts for a KMG, what grit belts would you purchase and are there any particular brand belts that are a good value?

My intent at this time is only to build folders, what would be the best diameter wheel for hollow grinds? 8??


One last question, keep in-mind that I am new so this may sound stupid, but it appears that a large majority of the people building folders on this forum are building liner-locks. Why are there so few people building lock-backs? Is one easier than the other?

Thank you for your time
10es&
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  #2  
Old 10-05-2008, 12:07 AM
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chiger chiger is offline
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Welcome 10, It's obvious by your screen name you are going to fit right in to the world of the obsessed here.

Have you looked around for a really small pulley system for the motor and really big pulleys for the drive?

As to hollow grind diameter, I like 6" for my fixed blades. It makes the hollow more pronounced. A lot of folder makers use 8" and grid nearly to the top of the spine. Looks a lot like a flat grind. So...since you can do a flat grind with your machine you might think about getting a 6" so you can produce 2 very distinctive looks. That's if you like the look of the old Buck folding lock back blades.

Let's see, oh. liner locks. They are easier to use and so more popular with buyers. That's probably the main reason. I suspect they are a bit more dependable if it's done right too. And it's not that hard to do.

Oh, and there is a good post around here somewhere on 2x72 belts. I'll try to find it and post the link.

chiger,

Last edited by chiger; 10-05-2008 at 12:14 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-05-2008, 07:42 AM
cliff fendley cliff fendley is offline
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My Bader grinders all have 3450 motors and I just run different size drive pulleys on them for different speeds.
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  #4  
Old 10-05-2008, 07:43 AM
cliff fendley cliff fendley is offline
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My Bader grinders all have 3450 motors and I just run different size drive pulleys on them for different speeds.
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  #5  
Old 10-05-2008, 09:30 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I use a 10" wheel and a 5" wheel for most of my folders. Most of my folders are fairly large though and smaller wheels give a more pronounced hollow grind as has already been stated.

Liner locks can be opened and closed with one hand and they are often made with pocket clips whereas lock backs often come with belt sheaths. Liner locks can also have a variety of opening mechanisms such as thumb studs, thumb discs, flippers, Wave style features, etc all of which make them popular with buyers and makers. There is a tutorial on my website for building liner locks http://www.rayrogers.com/ftutorial.htm


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  #6  
Old 10-05-2008, 10:33 AM
10es& 10es& is offline
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Cliff and Chiger,

Thanks for the info.
From what I have found for pulleys so far the best one for the application seems to be 1.75?X2.75?X3.75? (from McMaster) according to my math that would make the belt run about 2070 rpm-3450 rpm-5750 rpm. Though I have no experience with this type of sander these speeds appear fast to me.
Are theses speeds acceptable for sanding steels and handle material (wood, G-10, etc.)?

Cliff,
What size pulleys are you using? Do you have any suggestions on suppliers?

Ray and Chiger,
Thank you for the suggestion on the wheel diameter! Its great to have access to information from people who ?have already been there? it helps us new guys spend what little money we have on the right equipment the first time.
I will purchase a 5? or 6? wheel this weekend.

Ray, That is a terrific tutorial! I will definitely use that for my next knife. Right now I think I should finish screwing-up my lock back. I went into the building process knowing I would end up ruining it but would learn in the process.

10es&

Last edited by 10es&; 10-05-2008 at 10:36 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2008, 01:11 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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There is a math based chart that specifies what wheel size to use for a blade of any given width. Frankly, I don't think that information is worth much since few people will own that many different wheels and it isn't necessary anyway. I can grind a penknife blade on a 10" wheel if I want to. Sure, it comes out nearly flat but that's fine. If you use a small wheel then you get a very pronounced hollow grind but you may have trouble using that wheel on a wider blade. Rule of thumb: small blades can use smaller wheels, wider blades like bigger wheels.

Most any wheel can be used on most any width blade. It just depends on the 'look' you're going for ....


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Old 10-05-2008, 07:18 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I have a 2hp single phase motor that runs at 3450rpm on my Coote. I put a 1.5" pulley on the motor and a 5" pulley on the 10" contact wheel. That gives me slightly less than 1000 sfpm on the belt and that's plenty fast for me. I got my pulleys from Pheonix Manufacturing Co. Midwest Knifemaker's Supply also carries a small selection and they also carry what you need to make up your own drive belt from adjustable links. Jus don't get yerself cornfused and try to mount the belt inside out like I did; the little tabs go in the inside.

Doug Lester


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  #9  
Old 10-05-2008, 07:29 PM
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Thanks Doug,
I will take a look at Phoenix mfg.
The belt you mention has been talked about on some of the other threads and seems to be ?the cat?s meow? I will be purchasing one of those this week.

Also I purchased a 6? contact wheel from Sunray.com today (I wanted a 5? but that did not meet the minimum order).
They had a nice site that was easy to navigate.
Has anyone else purchased wheels from Sunray? Good or bad?
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2008, 07:41 PM
cliff fendley cliff fendley is offline
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I use 6,3, and 1 1/2 inch drive pulleys on my Baders. I think the belt speeds are somewhere around 5700,2800, and 1350 but its been a while since I calculated the speeds. I just know thats what works depending on the material and what I'm doing.
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2008, 09:20 PM
cdent cdent is offline
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I used a 3450rpm motor for over a year with a 2" pulley on the motor and a 2-3-4" step pulley on the grinder, and it worked well. I haven't had as much luck with link drive belts as some (vibration). If you have a good quality fan belt on hand, you might try it first.

If you're limited with your first belt order, I'd consider staying on the coarser side. Maybe 50 and 220gr in good quality ceramic, because it's heavy stock removal that's the most time consuming.

I also have a small sunray wheel, and it seems to be perfectly fine.

Have fun with the new grinder, Craig
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:35 PM
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Thanks for the pulley and contact wheel information Craig, with the belts are there any brand names you prefer or recommend staying away from. One of the reasons I ask is there are some ?no-name? belts on ebay, 10 belts for around $40 shipping included?
My better judgment tells me to purchase a brand name like 3M?. My wallet says otherwise
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2008, 08:08 AM
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NJStricker NJStricker is offline
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There is a person on ebay--barbkat--that sells abrasive belts and sheets. Some have used her belts and have reported good success. I bought some sheet stock for a disk sander and was not impressed.
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2008, 09:41 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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There is at least one thread on Sunray wheels if you'd care to Search for it. The gist of it is that they seem to be great value for the money.

Don't fool around with the quality of your belts, get the good stuff. If the higher price means you buy half as many then so be it, they'll last twice as long anyway. Buy your belts from Tru-Grit, get Norton Hoggers or Blaze belts for the coarse work, and Norzon or Hermes for the finer stuff. Skip all the exotic stuff like Gator belts, TriZact, and the micro-film belts for now - they're pricey and you don't know how to use them yet. What you need now is basic functionality and a superior cost/performance ratio. That comes from high quality ceramic belts. These same belts can be purchased through many of the knife suppliers but I've never seen anyone beat Tru-Grit's prices. They also sell sand paper by the box far cheaper than you can get it at the hardware store ....


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  #15  
Old 10-11-2008, 09:57 AM
Pelallito Pelallito is offline
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10,
Send R. Frink an email question about the correct pulleys and he will answer. He has been very generous with his time and help to all of us out there that making clones of his machine. As a matter of fact he is always helping people in this profession/hobby! I will be using a 3450 rpm, 3 hp motor controlled through a VFD and he recommended 1 to 1 pulley size for me. The only reason I have used a 3 hp motor is that I got it as it was being thrown away and there was nothing wrong with it. It was attached to a pump that was broken. I separated them and checked the motor and it was perfect.
Regards and good luck,
Fred
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