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The Outpost This forum is dedicated to all who share a love for, and a desire to make good knives, and have fun doing it. We represent a diverse group of smiths and knifemakers who bring numerous methods to their craft.

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  #16  
Old 05-27-2001, 03:25 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Re: Heat Treating Tutorial - PART 1


Well, I was considering one on damascus Roger, but I don't know where to start. I learned on a power hammer and have only forged chainsaw chain damascus in my little smithy. I'm mulling it over.
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  #17  
Old 05-27-2001, 05:51 PM
Roger Gregory
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Re: Heat Treating Tutorial - PART 1


Max, the heat-treating and handle tutorials are great. I am definitely going to try that handle technique.

If you do one on damascus it will be a winner as well. But hey, there's no pressure, you know the NTMs are all volunteers, that's what makes the whole Outpost so good.

Maybe one year I'll make it over to the USA for that school....Then I can buy you a beer and say thanks for the tutorials!

Roger
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  #18  
Old 05-27-2001, 06:49 PM
Ron Claiborne
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Heat Treating Tutorial - PART 1&2


Very good Max
you have done a very good job
some thing you might look at is a bainite formation - this is being tryed and used with good results.I have not tryed it yet but will be soon .
and another though is at welding temp its not burning the steel it cought in the range that makes a thin layer of molten steel and the carbon will migrate more with prolonged moltened faze
when building patter welded steel its best to weld when it ready dont leave in in for long periods of time, you can lose the complet perpose of welding the seam is a decarb seam , carbon at long heats reinter this seam and you wash out the decarb ,
just a few thoughts , you have done a fantastik job Im waiting for the next part #3
bowie
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  #19  
Old 05-27-2001, 08:17 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Re: Heat Treating Tutorial - PART 1&2


I thought about bringing up banite Ron, but without low temp molten salts, it's not much of a possibility. I don't plan on getting into the molten salt bath heat treating. It's just too much to worry with right now. If I can just train myself to miss the pearlite nose with the right heat treating oil and technique, I'll be happy. Besides, for a plain old hunting knife or bowie, martensite kicks the crap out of banite as long as you draw a good temper. The banite is a tradeoff on hardness for springy toughness. First, I have to learn to get a good martensite transformation before I fool with banite.

As to part 3, I'm all done with the heat treating tutorial. Just two parts. I'm thinking about a damascus tutuorial, but I don't have enough experience forging damascus with the hammer and anvil to do a good job of it. Damascus is so easy it just does't seem worth doing a tutorial on it. And without a power hammer, it's so much work I don't think many folks would want to tackle it. I just about threw my shoulder out forging on a billet I brought home from school. I should have forged all my billets out into bar form instead of leaving them as a square, blocky billet. Oh well, I'll have my power hammer up and running before long. I can wait.
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  #20  
Old 05-28-2001, 06:30 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Re: Heat Treating Tutorial - PART 1&2


Come on folks. Ask some questions. Let's get some discussion going so we can all learn something. I love to learn. Don't be shy, jump right in and ask that nagging question. There's bound to be somebody here that can answer it and we'll all learn something from you question.
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  #21  
Old 05-29-2001, 01:57 PM
Lively
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Re: Heat Treating Tutorial - PART 1&2


Hi Max,
Excellent tutorial. I learned a lot. Thanks!

When you heat treat your blades at night or in extreme low light there are shadows that flutter in the steel at critical temperature. You touch on these shadows in your tutorial but I don't understand what they are exactly. I understand what is going on as far as the transformation goes but I don't understand why we see shadows when it happens. Does anyone know? What is physically happening that causes our eyes to see a fluttering in the color tonality. It's very strange. Can you explain what we are seeing? Or is it a mystery? Another thing I have noticed and would like to get some confirmations from others is that these shadows get more pronounced the more you normalize. I normalize three times and then anneal before quenching and each time the shadows are easier to see. Am I just focusing more intensly each time or do others see this too?
Tim


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  #22  
Old 05-29-2001, 03:24 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Re: Heat Treating Tutorial - PART 1&2


Well Tim, if you look at that shadow as a dividing line it's easier to picture. All the steel on the hotter side of the line or shadow is in flux and de-crystalized. In other words, the iron and carbon are beginning to regroup into the formations called for by the higher temp. All the steel on the cooler side of the shadow is still solid and crystalyzed. So, as the temperature increases and you see the shadow, you can know where the Austenitic transformation is taking place and also know that the steel is near critical temperature. As the steel cools back down from critical temp, the steel re-crystalizes and the shadow is your visual indicator that this is happening.

I believe that the reason you see the color change or shadow more readily as you go through the normalizing procedure is because the steel is in a more relaxed state with each normalizing heat you take on it. That makes sense to me anyway. I pulled that out of my butt, it's just a guess. Or, it could be like you said, you're just paying closer attention as you go along.

Have you ever paid very close attention to what happens to your steel when you give it that first hammer blow? You can only do this in low light conditions because the change is very subtle. Lay your steel on the anvil and quickly and deliberately give the steel a good smack, never taking your eyes off of the hot steel. You'll see a shock wave in the form of a shadow that goes out from the center of the blow. But, it's not a dark shadow like you'd expect. It's actually brighter than the surrounding color at the time of the blow. Try it and pay close attention and you'll see what I mean. The theory is that you actually generate a large amount of heat when you give the steel a blow at forging temp. Try and figure that one out. It makes my head hurt.
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  #23  
Old 05-29-2001, 04:26 PM
Lively
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Re: Heat Treating Tutorial - PART 1&2


Thanks Max! Sounds good to me. I guess there's still a lot to learn in bladesmithing.
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  #24  
Old 05-30-2001, 06:26 AM
Dana Acker
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Re: Heat Treating Tutorial - PART 1&2


Howdy, Tim. Good to hear from you. Thanks for dropping by. Don't be a stranger.

Max, just back from Honduras (Banana Republic) looks like you've been busy. Good work, Bro. Thanks.
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2001, 07:32 AM
Dana Acker
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Lets keep this current a while longer before archiving it--this is a keeper.
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  #26  
Old 06-22-2001, 03:40 PM
Jeff Sanders
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Wow thanks Max for takeing the time to write all that out.

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