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Fine Embellishment Everything from hand engraving and scrimshaw to filework and carving. The fine art end of the knifemaker's craft.

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  #1  
Old 03-12-2005, 07:12 PM
bigaustin bigaustin is offline
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I made a graver last night

It is made of a pice of HSS.but it can not made a V cut on the brass swimmingly.Is there anything wrong with my gravers ?

I had taken a photograph.
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Last edited by bigaustin; 03-12-2005 at 07:37 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-12-2005, 07:41 PM
D'Angelo D'Angelo is offline
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did you make your heels on the bottom of your gravers?...I don't see any heels


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  #3  
Old 03-12-2005, 09:21 PM
bigaustin bigaustin is offline
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I have not get a little of idatum about grinding the tip of the graver ,because I can't find any book or video of this field in China. ,I do not know what the tip look like ,can you give me a picture of the heel? or a sketch map with the angle labled .
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Old 03-12-2005, 09:30 PM
Dave London Dave London is offline
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heel

Bigaustin
The heel is the relief grind on the bottom two sides of the graver some where around 15 to 17 degrees and very light grind on a 600 to cermaic lap the shorter the heel the tighter the turn you can make with out drag marks. The longer the heel it is eaiser to make long straight cuts. Sorry no pictures


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Old 03-12-2005, 09:43 PM
bigaustin bigaustin is offline
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Is the heel look like this?
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  #6  
Old 03-12-2005, 10:05 PM
Joe Mason Joe Mason is offline
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No, The heal should be here. See the arrow.
Joe



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  #7  
Old 03-12-2005, 10:11 PM
bigaustin bigaustin is offline
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Here?can Not Understand What It Is ,can You Make Me A Photo In You Spare Time
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Old 03-12-2005, 10:26 PM
D'Angelo D'Angelo is offline
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Here you go!!! This is borrowed from the GRS website!!
http://www.grstools.com/PDFs/UniformGraverHeels.pdf


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  #9  
Old 03-12-2005, 10:32 PM
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Shakudo Shakudo is offline
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link to chinese jewelry tool manufacturer. i'm sure that they can tell you where to find an engraving block and other information.

http://www.cyberimport.com/catalog/j...tool_index.htm
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  #10  
Old 03-13-2005, 08:31 AM
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mgdesigns mgdesigns is offline
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BigAustin:

Looks as though you are really digging into the engraving preparations. (Pun, Pun) One thing I noticed from your photos, besides the lack of a heel on the base of the gravers, is - you have a very rough finish on all of the faces of your gravers. At GRS classes, we were taught to prepare the graver on a grinder, then go to a sharpening machine (Power Hone), with a 600 grit diamond lap, and correctly grind all of the faces, then repeat on a 1200 grit wheel, then POLISH with a ceramic lap with 14000 mesh diamond spray. All of the faces get a polish (according to Sam Alfano, they should look pretty). After all of the that, you lap (pulling the graver) across a hard leather strop, with 14000 diamond spray on it (I used 50000 mesh). The higher the quality of polish to the main cutting planes, the brighter and smoother the cuts in the metal.

I hope this helps too. Good luck.
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Old 03-13-2005, 01:03 PM
pilkguns pilkguns is offline
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Ni Hao Big Austin,

I plan on being in Beijing and Shanghai in September. Maybe we can meet up then if you are any where near close (I know China is a big country) and I can give you some more help at that time.

Scott Pilkington
http://www.grstools.com/instructor.html#pilkington
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2005, 09:28 PM
bigaustin bigaustin is offline
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Is it look like this?
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2005, 10:33 PM
Ray Cover Jr Ray Cover Jr is offline
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MG,

I usually only clean up my face and my heels. They are the only surfaces that touch the material being cut. At least they are the only surfaces that are supposed to touch the cut material. Doing all that finish work on the rest of the graver is not necessary. My philosophy is spend your time making pretty engraving rather than pretty gravers. Its not a matter of one of us being right and one being wrong, Sam and I just have different philosophies on that point.

Here is pic I took with my camera through one of my eyepieces on my microscope. Not the greatest picture but I think you can see everything.

As you can see I leave the 180 finish on the sides and top of my graver and I leave the factory finish on the two surfaces of the belly.

I lap my faces with a ceramic lap. I use a very small heel and I rock the heel on with a hard fine Arkansas stone. A ruby bench stone would work well too. The Arkansas was free...what can I say. That is all the finish my gravers get.

Let me clarify something here. If you are doing bright cut jewelry or western style engraving where you want a shiny surface inside your cuts then by all means polish your gravers. You need it to get that shiny surface. Don't take my comment above to mean that you don't ever need to do that.

However, Polishing does two things, especially if you are doing it with a leather strop.
1. it rounds corners 2. It slightly blunts your cutting edge because it is rounding the corner.. It is microscopic but it happens.

If you are doing an engraving job that you want to show up darker inside the cuts rather than shiny (and this is any engraving job you might ink) that polished surface is not necessary.The finish left by a ceramic lap charged with diamond or a fine bench stone is fine enough to get good results on these styles of engraving.

For most gun and knife jobs I cut I prefer the sharper lapped edge over one that has been rounded with a leather strop. You especially don't want your bulino gravers to be stropped. You also want those sharp clean edges on those.


I want to note that the pictured graver has been used all day and needs to be resharpened. You can still see the compound heel.



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Last edited by Ray Cover Jr; 03-13-2005 at 10:38 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2005, 11:19 PM
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Tim Adlam Tim Adlam is offline
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This is a basic drawing of cutting angles for a square graver blank.

#1. An unground blank.

#2. Top view shows the diamond shape face angle, and the area above that line crossing the face is where you begin grinding
excess off the top.
The reason for removing this excess is mainly to give you a clear view of the cutting tip.
At this stage you have a true 90 degree graver.

#3. Profile view of the rough ground graver blank with a 45 degree face angle.

#4 & 5. (Profile View) Forward of the dotted line is the area you place the final cutting/heel angle.
I do this free-hand under magnification using a ceramic file, and the heel length is between 1 or 2 mm. for curved lines,
approximately 1 cm. for straight lines.
[The lift angle of the heel is exaggerated in the drawing].

It's hard to recommend a "standard" lift angle for any application because everyone holds a graver differently.
The best rules of thumb are;
The lower the lift angle...the better the control. The tighter the curve...the higher the lift angle.
Experiment with this angle until you find what suits your style.



#6. Sometimes a slight rounding of the tip of the graver can do wonders for your control.
If you take this further, you create a 110 -120 degree angle which can be useful for harder materials and specialized cuts.
A face angle of 50 degrees or more, increases the strength of the tip for harder metals as well.

Remember that graver sharpening isn't rocket science. The graver is your connection with the material you're cutting.
It's more about "feel" than basic geometry.

Of course there's other methods of sharpening graver blanks, but this one provides a strong point geometry with minimal effort.

Tim
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  #15  
Old 03-13-2005, 11:29 PM
Ray Cover Jr Ray Cover Jr is offline
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Wow Tim,

1 cm? I use a heel of about .25-.33mm for curved cuts and 1mm for straight lines like borders on most jobs.

If I am doing heavy work I will take them back a bit farther. I wouldn't know what to do with a 1cm heel.

Just goes to show there is no standard for graver sharpening. General theories and physics of geometry but no hard fast rules.

It is interesting how different people find different things that siute their style of work.


Ray


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