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The Sheath/Holster Makers Forum This is the place to discuss all forms of sheath and holster making.

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Old 10-23-2011, 11:09 AM
Ed Fowler Ed Fowler is offline
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Winter vrs. Summer Hides?

I was talking to the folks at Weaver Leather, I was told that winter hides are thicker than summer hides.

Theory is that it is the density of the hide that changes with the weather in climates with widely varying temperatures from season to season, expands in the winter to provide better insulation and contracts in the summer.

My Question: have any noticed a difference between hides harvested in the winter and those harvested in the summer as far as strength, ability to be stretched around the knife for a tight fit and naturally more?


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Old 10-24-2011, 07:02 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Ed
Interesting concept, however the leather I get from Weaver never has a tag-line that stated whether the hide was a winter hide or a summer hide. It all works the same for me as long as I stay consistant with the grade I order.
Since I don't tan my own hides, I have to rely on what the suppliers have. is this possibly something new that Weaver is kicking around as an advertisement gimmick maybe?
I've got last year's Weaver catalog and haven't seen anything about seasonal differences. Did I miss it somewhere in the front informational section? Plus, never noticed on their order form a place to make that selection.


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Old 10-24-2011, 11:30 AM
Ed Fowler Ed Fowler is offline
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I was talking to one of their sales girls, told her I wanted 12 - 14 oz. Waxed Harness Leather, in conversation she told me that they just got a shipment of winter hides and that they were thicker than summer hides. I asked her which was better and she said she had no idea.

It is just a thought that runs through my head when ordering and working leather, I have talked to saddle makers in the area and they state they notice no difference in working the leather. Vets and professors at the university have noted the difference in thickness, but had no thoughts as to which would be stronger. I was hoping someone else might be able to shed some light on my question.

One made the statement that I would probably have to go back 100 years when leather was king of transportation for the answer. I order the thicker leather because I like to split it myself for an even surface on the inside of our scabbards.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.


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Old 10-24-2011, 10:57 PM
Sandy Morrissey Sandy Morrissey is offline
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Ed, I have been working with leather for nearly 70 years and I have never been aware of a difference in hide thickness by season. I doubt that tanners care when the bovine was butchered, as most hides can be salted down and not tanned for months. The tanning process itself can stretch out for months. ---Sandy--


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Old 10-25-2011, 04:54 AM
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THat's what makes this forum stuff so interesting. I'd love to have some side by side to work under "lab" conditions just to see if there is anything to it. The real problem is we are talking organic, what was once living tissue, so to be anywhere near accurrate one would have to get the samples from the same animal both summer and winter "cuts". That'd be tricky in my book.
Hmmmmm........a cow raised exactly on the equator straddling the line would give you summer/winter, but not the climate extremes.
So the differences could probably never be lab verified. It will have to be a "theory" based on concensous of accumulated experiences.
Dad's probably on the mark. I can remember seeing warehouses in Chattanooga at the old tannery/saddle factory stacked high with dried hides waiting to be processed. Those on the bottom looked pretty old and somewhat moldy......"aged" is the term, I think. I doubt many tanneries give it much concern.


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Old 10-25-2011, 06:17 AM
dennie dennie is offline
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I can't help with the answer because I don't know if I have used summer or winter hides and seems unlikely I have only had one kind, but it raises more questions in my mind. It seems viable that there could be some expansion of the pores in the winter for better insulation in cold climates. Anyone that has trapped has seen the difference between a summer hide and a winter hide. But if I think about this in terms of other materials related to knife making, large pores are usually a detriment. It could work to the good if one was doing a project with the hair on. You might get more strech for a tighter fit, but would the lager pores mean more expansion and contraction based on the humidity? Will the fit be better at some times of the year? I think it would take a lot of time to determine the difference, and as Carl stated, it would still be subjective because of having to use different animals, unless enough were tested to be statistically acurate.

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Old 10-25-2011, 09:46 AM
Ed Fowler Ed Fowler is offline
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Dennis - welcome to my world of questions, most of which will remain questions, those little thoughts that bug you when you don't have anything more significant to think about.

Sandy and Crex - I thank you for your thoughts.

I doubt that there would be a significant difference in scabbards made from summer as compared to winter hides as far as knife scabbards are concerned. I figure most of the hides come out of the big meat packers and are not long in storage so some regularities would show up, some of the time. The leather we get has usually been worked pretty extensively before we get it and functional differences would be less significant. Still ----------------?


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Old 10-31-2011, 06:31 AM
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The snow already that deep out there? That's the problem when you live where you don't constantly hear the drone of motorized vehicles, equipment, etc., you are able to ponder on things.
Keep it working Ed, at our age if the old brain pan isn't churning it starts getting stagnent and we don't need that.
You ever thought of writing a book "Ed Wonders......."?


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