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High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel.

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  #1  
Old 01-21-2006, 04:25 PM
Suicycle Suicycle is offline
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Location: Trenton, GA
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Getting a blade hot (blue) and then heat treating

Tell me something if you can about stock removal knife making. If I use a dull belt at the shop and get the point to turn blue or any other part of the blade what effect does it have on the final product if finished and then heat treated? Some of the machinist say to draw it back, (anneal it). And others say no effect at all because it is in the annealed state already. I have heard rumors of brittle tips and soft tips and work hardening has been thrown about a lot too. I am afraid if I ask more mentions of eyesight being lost, house cat going crazy, or the easter bunny will die

Also is there a good book that translates all the technical info on heat treating steel. I have found tons of info, but it is in a language a little out of my reach. I understand different structures of steel, but don't know what is desirable or attainable. I feel there has got to be a gap between the catalog I have access to and the idea of heat it bright red and stick it in water or oil.
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Old 01-21-2006, 06:18 PM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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It won't hurt anything if the blade hasn't been heat treated yet.

But why use a dull belt???

Yes, there is a huge gap between heating something red hot and quenching to using the proper heat treat formula for each steel.

Google the Crucible web site and you'll find the heat treating formulas for lots of steels. If you understand the terms used and have the proper equipment, just use their formulas and you'll be OK.
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Old 01-21-2006, 09:18 PM
Suicycle Suicycle is offline
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We have a furnace at work, so control of the temp is easy. Also a dictonary like book named masters heat treating guide which gives temps and times for annealing, hardening and others I cannot remember. I can follow the reccomended formula, but sometimes it recommends not to normalize? Or some steels austempering is listed. I haven't read enough to notice if some terms are related to alloy steels or tool steels yet. Usually after a 12hr shift my attention is a little off.
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:37 AM
Kevin R. Cashen Kevin R. Cashen is offline
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Aside from turning steel blue on the grinder is a bad habit to get into, if you had your steel in a good condition for hardening, inducing this type of heat often includes some uneven stress issues from the innefficient grinding operation, which may lead to distortion in the final heat treatment. However, embrittlement and other structural issues will not result from this. But lets not forget to mention how much better control you will have over a workpiece that is not too hot to handle comfortably. Don hit the nail on the head- dull belts suck

All that being said, I am still guilty of creating the occasional blue spot on the blade when grinding, although I try to avoid it, and sometimes it may give me some problems later on and sometimes it doesn't.

In short, technically yes it can be an issue, but if you have the occasional oops and get a blue spot - don't sweat it, there a thousand other much bigger things to worry about that can screw up your blade.
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Old 01-29-2006, 12:45 PM
Suicycle Suicycle is offline
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Thanks for the reply. I seem to not be getting the email subscription to my threads, that and not a lot of time to check back. I knew it was undesirable, but usually it happens at the point during the profile portion of grinding. And very rare toward the end of the shaping of the master grind. Then again I tend to file to final dimensions beause of the lack of control of the grinders at work.
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