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High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel.

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  #1  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:57 PM
jl_reb jl_reb is offline
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ats-34 vs 420hc

Hey folks. I figured this would be the best place to ask this question. I am looking to buy a new folding knife and I have it narrowed down to one made with ats-34 and an assisted opening knife made of 420hc. Could somebody give me the scoop on their goods and bads and which is a superior steel. Thanks for and help. There may be no comparison, but I am not familiar with different types of steels.
Jesse
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:42 AM
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mete mete is offline
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The ATS-34 is far superior to 420hc because of higher carbon and molybdenum content . Therefore the ATS-34 will be harder to work [ grind, polish ]. Heat treating stainless steels requires careful control of temperature and times , if you don't have the proper equipment send it out for HT. See www.agrussell.com for steel guide.
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2005, 10:54 PM
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IronMonkey IronMonkey is offline
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420 HC blah!

ATS-34 is vastly superior, there is a reason that the cheap knife makers use it and 440A or surgical stainless steel. Go with the ATS-34 every time. Dan:rapture:


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  #4  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:43 PM
DaveL DaveL is offline
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Amazing, but yes, go with the ATS for sure.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:15 PM
Sam Wereb Sam Wereb is offline
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Hmm. Some of this is over-stated. At the higher hardness values, 420 HC is far more stainless (corrosion resistant) than ATS-34.
Reb, you seem to be choosing between two entirely different knives. Without knowing which ones and how they will be used, no one can give informed advice for your steel selection. Because of its propensity to rust, ATS-34 is a poor choice for some knives, like those that will get wet and stay wet (kitchen, diving, fillet knives et cetera) but excellent for others.

Last edited by Sam Wereb; 12-22-2005 at 05:23 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:38 PM
DaveL DaveL is offline
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Actually in my opinion, of course, 420HC is just not in the same league at all. ATS is stainless and you can check the chromium yourself. It's "propensity" to rust is something I have not heard of before. ATS, once 154CM in this country, was the steel of Bob Loveless and one of its major attributes was it was so stain resistant. 420 is preferred in manufacture for several reasons, none of which endear you as a user. You will be happy with ATS, believe me.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2005, 10:49 AM
DaveL DaveL is offline
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Checking Admiral's web site, ATS is listed as 13.75-14.00 percent chromium. 420 is listed as 12-14 percent chromium. If ATS has a "propensity to rust" so does 420. There is no comparison. You will be happy with ATS. Remember D2 is 12% and is a premium steel and you will not see rust mentioned as a problem with it.
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2005, 01:06 PM
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AUBE AUBE is offline
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420 is more stain resistant than ats34. i think it has to do with the carbon contents. something about a higher carbon content bonding with the chromium creates less "free" chromium which makes it less stainless. ive read if you add vanadium to the mix carbon will form vanadium carbides instead of just chromium carbides making it more stainless.

im not a metallurgist so hopefully someone that knows more about this will elaborate.

that being said i would still use ats34
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2005, 01:44 PM
DaveL DaveL is offline
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420HC maintains the position of the manufacturers favorite. Easy on tooling and it is not a bad blade but to compare it can be a problem. I have said enough and will close by saying that AUBE and I agree on one thing, Use the ATS34 for your blade/
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:44 PM
Larrin Larrin is offline
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Because of the lower carbon, 420HC has better corrosion resistance than ATS-34 in most circumstances, even if they do have similar amounts of Chromium. 420HC is also usually tougher because it is at a lower hardness. The main thing we are usually worried about in knives is edge retention, and ATS-34 will far outshine 420 in that regard. It will also have corrosion resistance that is plenty good enough in most circumstances, is one of the tougher stainlesses out there (though few know it), and is pretty easy to sharpen too.
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  #11  
Old 12-24-2005, 10:11 PM
DaveL DaveL is offline
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Gad, this is my last one. I think you are, no doubt, correct in the analysis but it is hard for me to understand and accept. I have been around custom knives a long time and remember when Bob Loveless first came out with 154CM. It was the marvel steel of the ages. When the heat process changed and Hitachi picked it up the old way, it was ATS34. Never heard of any corrosion problem at all. I have never been a fan of most manufacture steels like 440A or 420HC either. But, I bow my head on this one. However, there is no contest to which one I will use between those two and it will be ATS. Good thread.
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  #12  
Old 12-25-2005, 09:55 AM
Larrin Larrin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveL
Never heard of any corrosion problem at all.
It's not that it has corrosion problems, it's just that 420 is super corrosion resistant.
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  #13  
Old 12-25-2005, 10:22 AM
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tmickley tmickley is offline
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420 is more corrosion resistant than ATS-34, in fact ATS-34 is probably on the low end of corrosion resistance among the steels most often used in pocket or custom knives. Edge retention is better with ATS-34 than 420. In toughness, 420 wins again. Lot's of different things to look at.
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  #14  
Old 12-25-2005, 11:46 AM
DaveL DaveL is offline
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No, no, no. Just do yourself a favor and go to google and look up 420 versus ATS. It is not the steel if you have a choice.
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  #15  
Old 12-25-2005, 11:47 AM
DaveL DaveL is offline
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Matter of fact, read Buck's analysis of steels used in comparing ATS. Maybe they need you guys to straighten them out...
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