MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > High-Performance Blades

High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-21-2005, 07:14 PM
Coutel Coutel is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NE North Carolina 27909
Posts: 816
CPM S30V for a Chef Knife

Hi. I have done a forum search on S30V, but feel I need to ask a couple of questions.
This is a new steel to me...I have only used carbon steels before.

I want to make a chef knife..the blade is going to be about 8 inches long (13 overall), and 2 inches at its widest...This is going to be stock removal, and I am thinking of making ot slim, so maybe 3 /32 stock, then convex to the final edge.

Researching steels, it seems that CPM S30V would be a good choice......any one have any opinions or advice?

One concern I have is the blade being one hardness ....Will it have any flex at all before it snaps?...I am thinking that it may be used for filleting purposes as well.

Is it possible to draw temper some of the hardness out of the spine to make it softer/flexible?

I understand that its difficult to polish, but thats not a problem as I prefer a satin finish. Can I put a satin finish on easy enough with a sisal wheel?

I will be doing my own ht in an evenheat oven following CPM guidlines......It mentions air cooling to harden. Am I likely to get warpage or do I need plates?.....They also mention the possibility of an interrupted oil quench to 1000 then air cool (think I got that right?)....so , anyone have any advice about heat treating this steel?

What Rc do you think I should aim for?..I dont want it too difficult to sharpen.

Lots of questions...

Thanks in advance.

Kevin.


__________________
Kevin Davey
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-22-2005, 05:31 AM
mete's Avatar
mete mete is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 777
There are makers who have made chef's knives of S30V ,a fine steel for that....Flexibility is dependant on thickness not hardness....There is no advantage to tempering back the spine -again flexibility is thickness not hardness.It's not practical to temper the spine with this steel anyway....Follow the heat treating procedure carefully.Use heat treating foil .The most convenient quench is with plates ,leave the foil on and clamp the plates tightly.A hardness of 58-59 Rc is a good choice.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-22-2005, 07:23 AM
Coutel Coutel is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NE North Carolina 27909
Posts: 816
Thanks....I will follow that advice.


__________________
Kevin Davey
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-22-2005, 10:22 PM
McAhron's Avatar
McAhron McAhron is offline
Living Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Under the Redwoods in Beautiful La Honda CA
Posts: 1,642
Why s30v?440 is much less expensive and available in more sizes.Its heat treat is easier and more forgiving.To get the most out of any of these air hardening steels you will need to do a cryogenic treatment.You can go to your local welding supply and get liquid nitrogen or get some dry ice and sandwich the blade between a couple pieces,some people add acetone for a cooler and more efficient freeze.I cant remember if you add the ice to the acetone or vise versa.I know it must be done properly or it can boil over/explode.Good luck to you and post a pic of the finished product for us to see.

PS you cant draw back stainless because it will air harden as it cools.


__________________
N'T McAhron Sqwaukin Vulture Verrinder
"to create is to make art"
TREMBLING EARTH KNIFE WORKS
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-28-2005, 06:28 PM
nate d. nate d. is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: OK
Posts: 97
OK i've got and made my chef knife from S30V. Made it about three years ago. it doesn't get sharpened much. it is made from the thinnest stock that cricible offers. there is not flex to mine, but mines probably 2.5 inches wide. its a bid chopping knife that makes quick work of veggies for the pan!! I don't know if i'll make another one or not, as i like ATS 34 a lot and can get it in 1/16 in. thickness. that blade is 6 inches long and i almost taek it to the shop to resharpen but am patient most of the time and sharpen it with a diamond sharpener. Do not waste your time trying to sharpen S30V with a stone material, use diamond and save yourself the time, or do it on a machine. As far as HT goes, i austenitize (soak) at 1900 F for 30 min IN STAINLESS STEEL FOIL, don't do it without the foil (been ther done that, it ain't pretty). i quench in chill plates and get wonderful results this way. your right it doesn't and won't take a shine. about a 220- 320 tops. I have not had any issues with rusting and my wife is not the nicest person to a knife. any other questions about S30V and the kitchen just ask nedozier@utep.edu. Take Care
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-29-2005, 08:38 AM
Coutel Coutel is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NE North Carolina 27909
Posts: 816
Thanks guys. Been helpful.


__________________
Kevin Davey
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-12-2006, 09:42 AM
DiamondG Knives's Avatar
DiamondG Knives DiamondG Knives is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dardanelle, Arkansas
Posts: 2,101
Send a message via Yahoo to DiamondG Knives
Kevin

I would be very intrested with your results when you finish this. I have been asking myself the same question.

Although most folks I have made kitchen knives for, prefer a carbon steel blade due to its crisp edge, and being able to maintain it with a steel. But they also know how to properly care for a knife.

I am wanting to expand into the relm of stainless for those "Other Folks" who think it must be "Shiney" to be good. I have had several request for chefs from folks who I think fit into that catagory, and want to be able to provide a knife that is functional first, but "shiney" second. Just havn't figured out what would be the best steel for that.


God Bless
Mike


__________________
"I cherish the Hammer of Thor, but I praise the hand of God"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-17-2006, 06:01 PM
Coutel Coutel is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NE North Carolina 27909
Posts: 816
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondG Knives
Kevin

I would be very intrested with your results when you finish this. I have been asking myself the same question.

Although most folks I have made kitchen knives for, prefer a carbon steel blade due to its crisp edge, and being able to maintain it with a steel. But they also know how to properly care for a knife.

I am wanting to expand into the relm of stainless for those "Other Folks" who think it must be "Shiney" to be good. I have had several request for chefs from folks who I think fit into that catagory, and want to be able to provide a knife that is functional first, but "shiney" second. Just havn't figured out what would be the best steel for that.


God Bless
Mike
Hi Mike.

I havent made one in s30v yet, but I experimented with a couple of other stainless steels (440 and 154)...but I keep coming back to 52100...The stainless ones worked out fine, its just that I feel more comfortable with 52100 as I have tried and tested it so many times.........but I am going to have a go at laminating 52100 with a soft stainless one day....


__________________
Kevin Davey
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-17-2006, 06:58 PM
Chris Daigle's Avatar
Chris Daigle Chris Daigle is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 814
Kevin,

I wish you the best of luck with the S30V. I'm hand rubbing a 9 inch chef's knife (2 1/2" wide) right now, and I have to say, everything that people have said about it's toughness after HT is true. For that reason, I'm not sure if I'm in love with the steel or not. My finishing time on this one has been so dramatically different that it's going to have to prove to be WAY better than 154CM or 440C for me to keep working with it.

But like Mike was saying, it's what my customer asked for, so that is what he gets.

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-17-2006, 11:00 PM
McAhron's Avatar
McAhron McAhron is offline
Living Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Under the Redwoods in Beautiful La Honda CA
Posts: 1,642
I for one am glad to hear you stuck with carbon steel.carbon rocks for kitchen knives


__________________
N'T McAhron Sqwaukin Vulture Verrinder
"to create is to make art"
TREMBLING EARTH KNIFE WORKS
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-22-2007, 09:02 AM
Lin Knives Lin Knives is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6
Sandvik 13C26 works well. I've made a few from CPM S30V, but find that 13C26 is easier to sharpen. CPM S30V will get blunt eventually so it's percentage of large carbides isn't really important.

For a chef's knife, sharpness and corrosion resistance are the most important things. -Just my .02.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-23-2007, 11:48 AM
Gary Mulkey's Avatar
Gary Mulkey Gary Mulkey is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Branson, Mo
Posts: 1,129
Kevin,

Anymore there are so many choises of steels that the choise of which one to use is as varied as the opinions as to which one is best. However I feel that usually the best knife is made from the steel that you the maker are the most accomplished with, especially if you are doing your own H/T. Just because the knife is to be used in the kitchen doesn't mean that it should be from a different steel. I would recommend that you use your normal steel. Just my $.02.

Gary
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-23-2007, 04:01 PM
Coutel Coutel is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NE North Carolina 27909
Posts: 816
Wow...I started this thread over 2 years ago .....I ended up making a selection of knives using 52100 and 1095 and gave them away as Christmas presents 2 years ago....

One of the knives was a gift to my parents. I went home to visit them overseas for the first time in 18 months just a couple of weeks ago...

The knife I gave them was being used on a weekly basis to cut meat for Cornish pasties (a Saturday tradition) and I was happy to see that my father was managing to keep it very sharp just by using a kitchen steel.
Steel condition was much better than I had expected with minimal patina.....

Carbon steel rules


__________________
Kevin Davey
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-07-2008, 09:50 PM
AndradeArtWorks's Avatar
AndradeArtWorks AndradeArtWorks is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 29Palms California
Posts: 189
Greetings, As a new knife-maker and one who has worked in production kitchens I would say that S30V would only be a good choice if you were to grind it very thin.

And then it follows that what you end up with would be a knife that will be quite fragile in terms of longevity and possibly problematic in dropping accidents, and believe me, knives hit the floor now and again when used seriously, and picked up and put down hundreds of times a week.

So.........

Personaly I am not a fan of S30V for many reasons, mostly because it just is not all that fun to work with and certainly is a pain to sharpen.....unless ground very thin, and as for the type of profule and edge-geometry wou want in a chef knife, would not be practical.

I would say go with the counterpart being CPM154 if stainless is a must, and if it is not I would always have to vote for 52100 in the carbon category. It is by far my favorite steel for edge retention and if made properly into a chef knife can be wonderful. I have a Michael Rader Ssantoku that is just wicked sharp, and out performs everything I have compared it to...........all except for other 52100 blades. I have a piece I tested made by Rodrigo Sfreddo, and used it as a chef knife in a production kitchen every day and only had to sharpen it 3-times in one year!

There are many choices out there, and to me, many outshine S30V in all respects, especially if you are taking chef knives.

Thats my 2-cents

Don Carlos
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-12-2010, 12:56 AM
DiamondG Knives's Avatar
DiamondG Knives DiamondG Knives is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dardanelle, Arkansas
Posts: 2,101
Send a message via Yahoo to DiamondG Knives
Funny how we keep coming back to this thread!

Ive found a supplier for 52100 sheet stock in 1/8 thickness if your intrested Kevin. I got this to try the stainless clad 52100 idea thats been in my head for years!

Kevin, last I had heard you had moved to Texas. You still there??

Drop me a note when you get a chance, would love to catch up.

God Bless
Mike


__________________
"I cherish the Hammer of Thor, but I praise the hand of God"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blade, knife, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved