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High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel.

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  #1  
Old 10-07-2004, 12:53 AM
Alain M-D's Avatar
Alain M-D Alain M-D is offline
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Location: Qu?bec, Qc, Canada
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Help me to choose steel (and Rc) for a sword

I have a customer who want that I made for him a sword to
practise a Phillipines martial art (Pekiti Tirsia).
He looks for a sword for real use (nor for display) and who can
bend it in half and it springs back to true (flex and spring is more
important for him than edge holding, but edge holding,
impact strength and edge toughness are realy important also)

I have some ideas on which steel to use but I would like to have
your opinion and suggestions! What about L6, A2, 5160, CPM3V or maybe
cpm-s30v (It is rather flexible ?)

And which rockwell hardness is the best for this kind of project ?

Thanks for your help !

Alian M-D

Last edited by Alain M-D; 10-07-2004 at 12:55 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2004, 10:16 AM
Jerry Hossom Jerry Hossom is offline
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I've made several swords, most of which were Filipino Espadas. IMO, any of the steels you've mentioned will do well; the key in each and every case is the quality of the heat treating. I normally have had my swords tempered to Rc57/58.

Just an observation on that flexibility thing. There are a couple positions in using the Espada that position the sword with the blade held on its side, using the offhand to support the point. One of these is called a "bridge", and it is above the head. IF the sword is as flexible as you have suggested it will fail to stop a hard downward slash, by flexing, and you will be in deep trouble or dead. Further, if the sword flexes excessively it will retain momentum at the point when you really don't want it to. The point must be instantly responsive to movements at the wrist and a whippy sword will not. Some flexibility is necessary to strength, but that is the sole purpose of flexibility, not as a tool in using the blade.

I have made Espadas in CPM-3V, A2, S30V and even ATS-34. None have failed in testing, and several have been tested by FMA practicioners at the Guro and Tuhon levels. One was the funeral sword of Grand Master Remy Pressas.


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  #3  
Old 10-15-2004, 05:09 PM
Alain M-D's Avatar
Alain M-D Alain M-D is offline
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Thanks Jerry for your answer !

I spoke again to my customer I know more about what he wants.
You are right for the flexibility, it is not what is needed, he wants that
the sword was spring. He want to be able to bend it (at least in 90 degrees)
and springs back to true. It's the more important caracteristic.

The impact strength and edge toughness is less important because it will
not probably cut or fight with this sword (as opposed to what I thought)
thus is useless to choose a very expensive steels. I need a steel who will
make the best spring.

With which rockwell do have I to heat treat this blade to be really spring?
Do you think that 55 Rc is enought ? 57-58 will not give enought sping ? :confused:

Thanks for your help !
It is very appreciated to have your professional advices!

Alain M-D
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  #4  
Old 10-16-2004, 10:07 AM
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MixonKnives MixonKnives is offline
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I myself have not yet made a sword. But 57 Rc sounds way to hard to have that kind of flexability. Anyways, unless you have a Rc machine in your shop, I would be less worried about the Rc, and more worried about how it holds up in your tests after HT. Many swords were made before the Rc measuring machines were developed. The smith knew the sword was a good sword by testing it.

If you're using carbon and carbon alloy steels, and doing your own heat treating, it should be no problem drawing your own temper for the purpose of the intended blade.

Just my thoughts.

Good luck,
Michael

PS: If heat treating is not yet your forte, like me then you might want to address the heat treating question to the heat treating forum. those guys are geniuses on heat treating, and the metalurgists we have on here will be a GREAT help.

Last edited by MixonKnives; 10-16-2004 at 10:10 AM. Reason: PS:
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  #5  
Old 10-23-2004, 08:20 PM
Jerry Hossom Jerry Hossom is offline
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You're likely going to need to draw the temper down in the low to mid 40's to get that kind of bending action. Even then the blade can't be too thick.


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  #6  
Old 10-24-2004, 11:57 AM
Kevin R. Cashen Kevin R. Cashen is offline
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Location: Hubbardston, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Hossom
You're likely going to need to draw the temper down in the low to mid 40's to get that kind of bending action. Even then the blade can't be too thick.
Jerry, I am not surpised to once again find myself nodding my head at your posts. I think your HRC range is very acceptable if done right . I also have noticed your intentional use of the words "bending action" instead of "spring" or "flex", showing that you have a good grasp ( I am not surprised) of the principles behind yield points vs. elastic or proportional limits. There really are some things that have nothing to do with heat treatment, though the majority of what we do does.
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  #7  
Old 10-25-2004, 05:39 PM
Jerry Hossom Jerry Hossom is offline
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It must be I'm not meant to reply to a compliment. This post has been rejected twice already.

Kevin, if I've used the correct term it is entirely accidental. Most of what I think I understand about steel is anecdotal, some is common sense, much of it is bewilderment...


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