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  #61  
Old 04-21-2003, 04:20 PM
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Les Robertson Les Robertson is offline
 
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Hi Wayne,

No problem. However, I didn't take one in the shorts. I seldom if ever "take one in the shorts"

If I had 30 folders from that maker today. They would all be gone by Friday. So from a purely business (as an in demand maker I was 100% correct).

He is a part time maker who is called aways for weeks at a time by his "real" job. So far this year he has made exactly 0 knives (due to a move and his job).

Im not saying what he has done is correct. I am saying that part time makers are seldom if ever in control of their own time.

Im sure if you asked for your wood back he would send it to you. Probably reimburse you for your shipping costs and apologize profusly.

Most custom knife makers are part timers. As such their time is not their own to a large degree. This holds true for a lot of full time makers as well. For those who have never worked for themseleves. You would be amazed at how your time can be gobbled up by outside distractions.

Since you don't have a "real" job and your time is your own. You can come and go as you please. I laugh every time I hear some one para-phrase that thought.

I agree with you though that by in large the custom knife business is a very honorable one.

Just as custom knife buyers should buy what they like.

Custom knife makers should run their business they way it will suit them and their customers the best. Obviously, this thread has shown that different makers have different needs for their business.

If their clients can live with the makers guidelines than ultimately that is what should be done.


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  #62  
Old 04-21-2003, 08:19 PM
cactusforge cactusforge is offline
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Les,
I have just the past 30 days went over what I was doing. I have a brand new web site thanks to Chuck at Wild Rose Trading Co.
Check it out and tell me what you think. I also will be concerating on knives meant for Reactors. Buckskinners and the Single Action Shooting Society, the fastest growing shooting sport in history. If you haven't tried it you should you might like it. As well as knife lovers who like Bowies.
I would sell you a knife with out a deposit and even give you a discount. If you get a inquiry for my type of knife please keep me in mind.
Gib


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  #63  
Old 04-23-2003, 10:19 AM
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J.Arthur Loose J.Arthur Loose is offline
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So this thread has come full-circle for me; and it has certainly taken on a life of it's own!


I've decided to stop taking deposits at all.

However I've just had a string of bad luck and due to injuries or increased quality control I have gotten behind. Some customers have asked for firm delivery dates and here is where I've made a huge mistake. I should have absolutely been firm in expressing that the Craft of Knifemaking simply doesn't tolerate firm delivery dates unless you're willing to cut corners. When you're making one of a kind pieces with specific damascus composite constructions and embellishing with complicated jewelry techniques there are simply too many steps that involve the potential for complete failure after investing a significant amount of time and energy. Not only do you lose the time you've already invested, but you lose the time you spend catching up.

I really love the concept of commissions and working with someone who appreciates my aesthetic and wants a personal piece of it. ...But as several makers have noted, they can certainly be a pain!



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Last edited by J.Arthur Loose; 08-12-2003 at 09:06 PM.
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  #64  
Old 04-24-2003, 08:03 AM
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Danbo Danbo is offline
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One thing I have learned for sure in this thread is that I just gotta have a Primos Baboon Buttcheek Bowie!
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  #65  
Old 04-24-2003, 10:59 AM
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Terry Primos Terry Primos is offline
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* Note to self -- change Danbo's order from Premium Ring Gidgee to yellow pine wrapped with Baboon Buttcheek.


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  #66  
Old 04-24-2003, 11:19 AM
J.R. Fraps J.R. Fraps is offline
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Terry and Danbo,
Can't wait to see a pic of this innovative creation.

please post! or mabe someone who can edit pics might post their idea of what Danbo wants Terry to "build" or do you grow this knife?

Thanks for the smiles, Guys!


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  #67  
Old 04-24-2003, 01:29 PM
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Danbo Danbo is offline
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Aaaaarrrggghhh! What have I done?
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  #68  
Old 06-10-2003, 09:48 AM
Geode Geode is offline
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Excellent thread. I am relatively new to buying custom knives, so my initial strategy (whenever possible) has been to buy only finished products for sale by the maker or through dealers.

That way, no surprises or hassles related to the timing of a knife's delivery or an up-front deposit. However, my purchases have been limited to "standard" models that the maker lists and made from materials that did not require the procurement of something exotic (e.g. Baboon flank hide).

In the instances where orders have been made, makers who created batches of handmade standard knife models would not accept a deposit.

Practices I observe probably support the normal business practice of requiring deposits in the instances where an item deviates from the normal fare sold to a "typical" customer.
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  #69  
Old 06-10-2003, 09:48 AM
Geode Geode is offline
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Excellent thread. I am relatively new to buying custom knives, so my initial strategy (whenever possible) has been to buy only finished products for sale by the maker or through dealers.

That way, no surprises or hassles related to the timing of a knife's delivery or an up-front deposit. However, my purchases have been limited to "standard" models that the maker lists and made from materials that did not require the procurement of something exotic (e.g. Baboon flank hide).

In the instances where orders have been made, makers who created batches of handmade standard knife models would not accept a deposit.

Practices I observe probably support the normal business practice of requiring deposits in the instances where an item deviates from the normal fare sold to a "typical" customer.
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  #70  
Old 06-10-2003, 10:17 AM
A T Barr A T Barr is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geode
deviates from the normal fare sold to a "typical" customer.

I make one knife at a time, I do not make "batches" of knives. I do good to make 75 knives a year. So when I work on a specific (altough standard model) knife, and that buyer backs out, sure I will sell it, but I *could* have been working on a different knife for a customer that is on my wait list.

That's why I require a $25.00 deposit from people I don't know. A lot of posters on this forum and the Internet do not use their real name. When I receive an order via email, I have no idea if the name is real. Most time sure, but ya never know.

$25.00 ain't much, but at least it shows the buyer is for real. When a person calls and has a good reason to cancel an order, I give the deposit back.

A couple of weeks before I start the knife, I contact the buyer and not only confirm his/her wishes, I confirm he/she still wants the knife. When the knife is completed and for some reason they won't complete the transaction, they lose the deposit.

Sincerely,

A.T.

"Don't you buy no ugly knife"
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  #71  
Old 08-11-2003, 06:30 PM
tunefinK tunefinK is offline
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As a buyer I believe that is perfectly acceptable to ask for a deposit on custom work . If I were a maker, I would ask for one???50% is fair as it keeps both parties invested. I have paid deposits more than once.

I also understand that knife making is an art and I do not have those skills, but truly enjoy using and collecting the works of others.

But, if you accept a deposit you have entered into an agreement that should be defined on the front end. If no firm delivery date can be given, that can be understood. If one is given, the buyer should have some expectation of receiving the knife and if long unavoidable delays occur a prompt refund should be offered.

Given a recent experience on a high end bowie??? I?ll be more careful in the future.

Just my .02
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  #72  
Old 08-11-2003, 09:30 PM
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lune2ne lune2ne is offline
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If y'all can stand a to hear somebody else point of view i'll throw in my 2 cents!

I don't have a problem with paying a deposit on knives as long as the make is willing to at least come close to the estimated time of deliver! I've got two knives out there with deposits on em that are past there due dates with not a word of update from the makers!

If the maker as got a back log he should say so up front and contact the buyer when he's ready to start the knife and then ask for a deposit! That way nobody as money tied up for a long period of time!

I've payed as much as 10% to 1/2 and i don't see a problem with asking for the deposit i under stand the maker as to buy material and pay his bills! Because hey i get mail from that bill guy every month myself!
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  #73  
Old 08-12-2003, 07:15 AM
JimmySeymour JimmySeymour is offline
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I don't mind paying deposits, but I'll never pay 50% up front again like I have been doing. I have just been burned one to many times. If you have a long waiting list, then call me when you get to my knife, and I'll pay the deposit then. I'll even pay a small fee upfront to insure the knifemaker I am serious. But there are too many out there wanting big deposits, making promises, and then not delivering. I understand ever one comes across some bad luck, delivery dates have to be pushed back, but not many are being proffesional about it. So I definatly have changed the way I order knives and from whom I order.
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  #74  
Old 08-12-2003, 07:26 AM
A T Barr A T Barr is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimmySeymour
I don't mind paying deposits, but I'll never pay 50% up front again
I agree. I ask for $25.00 when I take the order. When I am ready to >>>START<<< the knife, and if it has high dollar material, I ask for an additional deposit. If it doesn't require additional material, I only confirm the knife order at that time.

A.T.

My next show is the SouthEastern Show
in Winston-Salem, NC, September 6th and 7th.
Please come by and say hello.
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  #75  
Old 08-12-2003, 07:32 PM
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J.Arthur Loose J.Arthur Loose is offline
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As one of the knifemakers out there who is currently running behind, I have to say that I am going to start moving completely away from taking orders or doing custom work. I am currently almost a year behind on a couple pieces; and even though I stopped taking 50% deposits quite some time ago there are still a few pieces with deposits from back then that need to be finished.

Complex damascus knives take a long time to make and when one goes bad in the quench or when an etch reveals a hidden flaw it sets all the rest back by weeks; especially when you are trying to make it to the top levels of the craft. I have recently very reluctantly put some fine blades aside that had what I used to consider minor flaws.

Hopefully the fact that my name and my work will without a doubt increase in value makes up for the delays. Knives are my passion but the one-of-a-kind, handmade ones that I want to make are simply not good business. I've been moving into minor production jewelry to support knife-making as a result. This has been a serious learning experience for me as well as the collectors who are currently waiting me out. I hope folks can be patient with me as well as other new makers out there who are figuring out how to make it in the worst economy since the Great Depression...


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