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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 01-09-2015, 11:20 PM
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ricky_arthur ricky_arthur is offline
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New 2X72 a Disaster...

Well the new 2X72 Showed up today, I was pretty excited to add another 2x72 to my shop. Met the UPS truck at the Dock and picked it up. Opened the first box and took out the first item. The tool rest.

It doesnt appear that the weld had any penetration. Not a huge deal, I can weld but not a good sign.



Took a few more items out and found the tracking wheel.





Dinged in 2 spots, At this point I went in and emailed the guy I bought it from. After an hour I hadn't recieved any response, (Not surprising, I dont watch my email every second either.) So I continued to un-pack and assemble the grinder. I re-welded the tool rest and gently smoothed the dings in the tracking wheel. triple checked everything and fired it up.

The audio in the video doesn't accurately portray how fast it was running, it was HUMMING! Scary FAST! I thought the belt might blow up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arbMUxCtbgw

So I looked at the Motor, It was a 3450RPM motor. There is no way I could grind with it running that fast so I switched the pulleys to slow it down. The speed was about right but then it had a horrible vibration. Then I took a small piece of annealed 1/8 inch 1095 and tried to profile grind, The lightest touch slowed the belt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbmOpOUqcec

I switched the pulleys and tried again, this time it didn't bog down quite as bad but it was still way under powered and running way too fast.

I checked again and had received a response from the seller, He indicated he would send a new tool rest, and that If I just gave it a try I would like the Grinder. I explained the further issues and he offered a refund if I didn't like it, and if I ship it back (shipping was 95$) I thought well, maybe I just need to get another motor and things will be fine. So I started it and tried a couple passes on a heat treated knife just to see how it felt. After 2 passes the belt dove into the side of the tool rest and I shut It off, adjusted the tracking and started it again, after a few seconds it hit the tool rest again. So I readjusted and started it with the tool rest out of the way and watched the tracking knob. The tracking knob was visibly turning by itself from the vibration. I looked again at the picture I had bought it from and noticed that the picture showed a spring on the tracking knob, But mine had not come with a spring. The soonest I can ship It back will be a week from monday because work will take me away for a week starting sunday morning and the UPS store is not open on Saturday. What A disaster.
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2015, 11:27 PM
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BCROB BCROB is offline
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to bad Ricky , and disappointing I'm sure.......


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  #3  
Old 01-10-2015, 01:14 AM
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NorCal Nate NorCal Nate is offline
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Ricky where did it come from? Man that's a bummer! Get your money back. Kinda heart breaking IMO .
~Nate
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2015, 06:07 AM
PoolQs PoolQs is offline
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Real sorry to see and hear ALL those issues.
Happy thoughts !!
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2015, 08:20 AM
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DanCom DanCom is offline
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Hope you get it sorted out. That's the crown jewel of your shop and It's gotta be right.

Dan
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2015, 08:46 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Tell us whose grinder that is please - lets make sure to steer clear of that guy. Also, if you haven't done so already, be sure to email him and tell him when you will be returning the grinder. Otherwise, he may say there was a 7 day return period and you missed it by this much .....


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  #7  
Old 01-10-2015, 12:43 PM
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ricky_arthur ricky_arthur is offline
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Let me up date. First the seller has been very adamant that I will be happy or he will return my money including shipping. So that part is positive. On the stalling. The whole thing comes to a stop. Not just the belt. I watched for that. I noticed that the pictures on the auction and my machine are different on the tracking mechanism. It is assembled differently. This part was pre assembled so it wasn't something I put together wrong. On the auction pictures the shaft that the tracking pulley is on comes off the assembly on the bottom. Mine comes off the top. I think it was assembled wrong. One of the things the seller said was he had tested this machine with a different tracking assembly than the one he shipped it with. I will see if changing the shaft fixes the problem. Also I am going to take the motor and pulleys off my other 2x72 grinder and see how the machine runs with a decent motor. At the very least I am sending the motor back. I don't mind tweaking the grinder to see if it works. I like the design. If it works correctly I'll keep it.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:59 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Obviously the tracking has serious issues but I'm more curious about why it bogs down. No reason the tracking would be responsible for bogging unless it gets so far off track that the belt jams which, as I understand it, you're saying it does. Even so, you seem to be saying it bogs even before that.

The 3450 rpms isn't ideal but it doesn't have to be a deal breaker either if the pulleys are right. We haven't seen a picture of the assembled machine yet but here's my initial take on it:

The motor needs to be at least 1 hp, anything less will certainly bog down.

The belt should move easily by hand (you know this from your other grinder)

The driven pulley should probably be about 3 times the diameter of the one on the motor. That should slow it enough to be comfortable to use and it should give adequate torque to prevent bogging


Of course, all that above assumes you get the tracking problem solved and it sounds like you have some ideas about that already. We will keep out fingers crossed for you ...


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Old 01-10-2015, 04:48 PM
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ricky_arthur ricky_arthur is offline
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I took the motor off my other grinder and made the changes to the tracking that I thought would help. The results were much improved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9wjvL2wxKo

Then I rough ground a large blade to see how it works. It was capable of doing the grind. It will take a little getting used to and I will make another angled rest for swedges. A few tweaks and I think I will like it.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2015, 08:56 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Dang! Sorry to see this happen. You REALLY need to let it be known who this individual is. Just from the pics it's obvious that he didn't take much care in packaging, and if that part wasn't handled correctly, its very likely that the machine isn't what it should be either.

I don't mean to rub salt into a wound, but I've seen things like this happen all too often when folks decide to purchase a less then well known grinder. If the option is there, my advice is to return it, get your money back, and save some more $$$, until you can buy something such as a KMG.

I watched the videos, and can tell you that personally I've had no less then a 1/2 dozen calls from people who purchased either that machine, or one very similar....and it was nothing but continual problems for those who called me seeking help.


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Last edited by Ed Caffrey; 01-10-2015 at 09:00 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2015, 10:03 AM
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C Craft C Craft is offline
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Wow that is a real shame, I built my own KMG clone and after the experience I see why the real thing costs as much as it does. Everything has to be square and true or you got problems.

On mine I was a tad off on the slot that holds the arm that for the tracking pulley. It was so little but I saw it as soon as she was fired up the first time I realized something was wrong. When I realized the arm was off ever so slightly I figured that was the problem. I initially shimmed the bracket that holds the tracking pulley but decided that I wanted to put it on an adjustment in case that needed to be readjusted once a belt wore and stretched. I added in an adjustment to the bracket that holds the tracking pulley. So now not only does the tracking pulley raise and lower to adjust the tracking of the belt but I can tweak the pulley forward and backward. To adjust alignment between that pulley and the others. The funny thing is I have never had to readjust it after the initial adjustment. That is what I mean by everything being square and true. One little bit off can translate to a lot off. That is the reason the KMG cost what it does because he has $100,000 + in machines that can be used to cut pieces that will be within a few hundred thousands of an inch in tolerance, to keep everything square and true. If I ever decide to have another it will more than likely be one of Rob's at Beaumont. The KMG is hard to beat. Now having said that I am glad I built my own clone!

Its like I used to tell the boys that worked for me framing houses. Some guys say as long as the bubble on a level is in between the lines that is close enough.
I would then explain to them if it was off by an 1/8" in the distance of a four foot level in eight foot, the height of the wall you would be off a 1/4". So if your between the lines but touching one of the lines it already off by 1/4" and in the height of an 8' wall you are already off a 1/2". So if you work for me close is not close enough, make sure the bubble is centered!

It's a bummer you having to work on a new grinder. I think I would send it back and tell him I want my money back. If it is that much problem straight out of the box it is probably going to get worse with time!


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Last edited by C Craft; 01-12-2015 at 10:11 AM.
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2015, 12:10 PM
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Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
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I've had the opportunity to use a KMG--good grinder.

I chose to build Tracy Mickley's 'No-Weld Grinder'. Honestly, it tracks as good as the KMG did. My 2HP farm duty and 3-speed pulley set up gives me plenty of versatility. I have a tool rest (a pretty good one) but I prefer to free-hand grind.

In the end, the only thing that matters is where the steel meets the belt and how the belt reacts when that contact is made. I feel fortunate that my grinder, literally made from rusty junk plucked from heaps of iron at the local scrapyard, is as good or better than anything I've ever used.

I will be welding a modified 'No-Weld Grinder' in the coming months to augment my shop.

I think you'll be fine with what you have as long as you have total control at the point of contact. It can be a real 'Rube Goldberg' up to that point, but as long as you are happy with the grinds, you win.


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