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The Folding Knife (& Switchblade) Forum The materials, techniques and the designing of folding knives.

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  #1  
Old 01-17-2003, 09:59 AM
K_Conrad K_Conrad is offline
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Anodizing

I wanted to anodize the handels of a BM bali song, and that sent me on a quest... To find cost of having some one do it for me, and to see if I could do it my self...
Well, paying a company to do it is out of the question...the best quote I got was $165...and I found out I can build an anodizing set up for less than that.
SO... here is the question... how difficult is it to get a clean nice anodized finish? I know the reactivity of Ti is based on voltage, and if you can adjust the voltage you SHOULD be able to get very similar results.
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Old 01-17-2003, 10:29 AM
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Jamey Saunders Jamey Saunders is offline
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I'm sure others will chime in here (those who have actual experience) but from what I've read, as long as the piece is perfectly clean and well-finished (anodizing magnifies surface imperfections), you will get a clean coating from the homemade equipment. I'm going to get into that one day.


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Old 01-17-2003, 01:29 PM
K_Conrad K_Conrad is offline
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Thanks...

So the "trick of the trade" would be to basically 'finish' your piece then anodize it?

I have heard of storys however where failed home anodizing resulted in some pitting... so here would you just start over, finish the piece and try again?
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Old 01-17-2003, 01:37 PM
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I really wish someone else would chime in here. I think the pitting may have been from the item not being clean. Jason Howell did a tutorial for CKD (click here ) where he states that he cleans all his parts with acetone and immediately puts them into a distilled water bath. They don't come out until he's ready to anodize. Directly from the distilled water into the TSP solution. This gives the parts no time to corrode or become contaminated.

We've just about reached the extent of my knowledge about anodizing, and none of it is first hand.


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Old 01-17-2003, 01:45 PM
K_Conrad K_Conrad is offline
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jsaund22

I apriciate your input reguardless of actual expierence,

Mr Howell's tutorial is exactly how I would be attempting this project should I go with it. But for example... in the photography where the anodized liner comes out of the TSP soultion, it has a darker, more matt look ... then laying on the mat ready for assembly the liners are all bright and shiny?
Could be just a lighting issue... but its just one of those bumps Id rather cover before I start buying junk that i cant really use for anything else....
Thanks again, and Im sure some one will jump in here eventually....
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Old 01-17-2003, 01:56 PM
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Bob Warner Bob Warner is offline
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The difference between the two photo's on Jasons tutorial are that the piece coming out of the tsp is still wet and in poor light. The other picture is in good light with dry pieces.

The anodizing process only takes a few seconds. You are not going to pit your Ti by annodizing. Any real flaws in an anodized piece were probably there before anodizing.

Polish it up to your liking and anodize. The different possible finishes give different results with the exact same color. You have to experiment.

Something you have not stated is what the handles are made out of. Could they aluminum or stainless steel? Probably not stainless, but aluminum is a good possibility.

Anodizing aluminum and anodizing titanium are two completely different animals.


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Old 01-17-2003, 01:58 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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Anodizing

There was a recent thread at Usual Suspects/Shoptalk about the topic of pitting when anodizing, traced to the TSP source. It was started by Ken Onion. You might want to read that.
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Old 01-17-2003, 02:00 PM
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In this case the anodizing would be completed with a new setup so I did not add that as a possibility. However, it is a possibility, that is why experimentation is required. If I remember correctly, Kens correction for his problem was to completely replace his TSP solution with new.


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Old 01-17-2003, 02:24 PM
K_Conrad K_Conrad is offline
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As I recall the thread by Ken did result in him changing out his batch of TSP and some new H2o and his issues were resolved.

I am juat a little over cautious by nature, and skepticle of somthing that seems so easy.....I know it cant be!

Mr Warner, you are correct that I didnt state the material. I assumed that most people are naturally balisong fans Just kidding... the BM Bali's of today are sadly all Ti handled (with a few limited run exceptions and asingle model not yet released for 2003). They were offered with a single color anodized handle initially but now they have mentioned discontinuing that option. Which brough me to want to do it my self. That and having an option of color.

So its a concensus, that if I do everything as mr Howell does in the tutorial, I should atleast be getting a decent end product... and I will just have to expierment with what it takes to get the color I want in the end?

Another question came to mind! If (for example) I want a sea green (approx 100-110V) and decide the color isnt right, can I go back and zap it with, say, 25/30V and have a fresh looking color... or will the colors blend and cread a nice MUD ?
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Old 01-17-2003, 02:34 PM
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Just call me Bob, it is better than most of the other names I get called and I like it more than Mr. Warner.

Colors change according to voltage. If you color at say 90 volts and don't like it, you can crank it up and color at 120V. However if you don't like the color, you can't go backwards. To go backwards you have to remove the anodizing and repolish your piece and then anodize again with the "NEW" part.


Lets say your handle has holes down the length. You can color the entire handle one high voltage color, then remove the color from inside the holes and re-anodize at a lower voltage to color the inside of the holes. The low voltage will not hurt the high voltage color.

Hopefully my bad description will still make it's point.


AND, don't be afraid to mess something up. Get a scrap piece of TI and practice until you are comfortable with your skills, then anodize the heck out of that handle.


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Old 01-17-2003, 02:39 PM
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Jamey Saunders Jamey Saunders is offline
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Uh...yeah. What Bob said! Thanks for jumping in here, Bob.


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Old 01-17-2003, 02:55 PM
K_Conrad K_Conrad is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Warner
Lets say your handle has holes down the length. You can color the entire handle one high voltage color, then remove the color from inside the holes and re-anodize at a lower voltage to color the inside of the holes. The low voltage will not hurt the high voltage color.

Hopefully my bad description will still make it's point.
Actually Bob, not only did it makes its point, but answered another question before I got the chance to ask Didnt know you were psychic did ya
So, as long as your working down (from the highest V you will use on a project...downward to the lowest) you will not effect the previous colorisation? I think, at least ..thats what I understood.

Which brings me to another point of interest (im full of them, well, mama says im full of somthing) ; Can you 'mask' off areas so they wont touch the solution and prevent them from being anodized in the first place?
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Old 01-17-2003, 05:17 PM
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As long as the color on the Titanium was placed there with a higher voltage than the current voltage, there will not be any change to the original color.

Yes, you can mask. Masking can be difficult because you have to cover your areas in a water tight manner. For example: Tape would work but the edges may get some color under them.

After you get really good, you can use a paint brush as the anode and paint your colors onto the Titanium. NO, I have not done this but have seen some incredible artwork done this way.


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Old 01-18-2003, 10:17 AM
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Just wanted to say a word about possible pitting while anodizing titanium. I've managed to pit titanium in two different ways.

The first way is high voltage. Green must be about the hardest color to get - I've never maged to get it and I've only seen it on other people's knives very rarely. But, I have a commercial anodizing unit and I have tried using the 100+ volt range you mentioned. Hint: you really, really don't want the ti to touch the cathode at these voltages.

The second way is to have a piece of steel attached to the titanium. If there is a screw or pin ANYWHERE on that titanium things will get nasty especially at high voltages.

I would also mention that you must be very careful with your etchant. A highly polished piece of ti looks great when anodized but leaving that piece os ti in the etchant for more than a few seconds can lightly pit the entire surface so that it looks like it has been bead blasted.

As far as I can tell, every color the anodizer can produce can be achieved between 0 - 40 volts. If you go higher the color pattern repeats, so I stay below 40 or 50 volts where things are safer.

On the other hand, I never got the green .....
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Old 01-18-2003, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Yes, you can mask. Masking can be difficult because you have to cover your areas in a water tight manner. For example: Tape would work but the edges may get some color under them.
Now I've never done any anodizing but thought I could point you to another source, see if you can track down Tom Anderson. In a tutorial he posted not to long ago, he anodized his "handles/integrated lock" after the ball-dent and stop oin were inserted, inturn he had to mask it being steel. He didn't go into detail on what he used. He also did some multi color effects.

The Tutorial
He's actual post


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