What makes a Bird & Trout knife?

[RHaskins]

Tried search but did not really find what I was after.
What constitutes a Bird & Trout knife? I know it's small, but are there any more specifics someone can share?

-Randy

[Ray Rogers]

It's small, usually with a narrow and fairly straight blade. Especially in the folder versions you will often find a wire hook included. I've seen the hook built into the handle of a fixed blade as well but that's kinda rare. Don't be too bound by what the concept of 'standard' here, I'm not sure there really is a standard. After all, how many different variations of a fillet knife have you seen? A chef's knife? A bowie?

Just make a knife that you think you would like to use on birds and trout. Think about the job at hand and design a knife to fit the task and you won't go wrong....

[george tichbour]

I use the phrase to denote a small knife useful for hunting and fishing. Blades are usually 3 - 3 1/2" drop points but design is whatever looks functional and pleasing to the eye.

[clw3]

I have a similar interest in the bird & trout knife. I am planning on actually completing my first knife soon at the Beginning Knifemaking class in Troy, NC next month. I have designed one I think may suit the bill, but I sure could use a trained eye to help with the functionality. My goal is to create a nice looking and functional knife, but not to get too fancy for my first real attempt. I have rendered the handle as black on my illustration, but I think I will be using walnut for the actual knife. I welcome any thoughts!
C Wommack

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/at...ntid=419&stc=1

[hammerdownnow]

Clw, nice blade shape, flow and lines.

To be totally correct on a bird and trout, the blade needs to look like a scaled down filet blade around 3-5". An awesome piece would be one with a slipjoint or linerlock gut hook built into the handle.

Here is William Scagels idea of a Bird and Trout as rendered by Jim "Treeman" Behring.

[clw3]

Thanks for the input Hammer!
I guess this one wouldn't qualify as a true b&t. I will do some more work to develop new sketches based on the input I've received here.
I still think I will make the one I sketched, though. Maybe I should just classify it as a "utility" knife.

[RHaskins]

Thanks guys, getting some good ideas on what to put together for a B&T.

Hammer- is there any place I can see what this linerlock gut hook would look like?

-Randy

[clw3]

Here's a sketch based on my previous knife with a slightly longer blade and small guthook. I know the fillet shape is not there but I like the look of a drop point. Is this closer to a real B&T or should I stick with the "utility" knife design? I'll gladly accept any critique. I am here to learn and usually learn more from negative feedback than oohs and aahs.
Thanks!
-C Wommack

[Sam Wereb]

Hi Clw3.

Welcome to the forums.

If you want to make a traditional bird and trout knife, then the Scagel knife in this thread is the standard.

Other designs are much more practical, and you might do well to talk to some local trout fishermen to find out what they need in a knife to carry while fishing. Most of the dedicated trout fisherman I know carry multi-tools instead of a knife.

When I'm trout fishing, I'm walking for miles and find a sheath knife to be very impractical. Trout fisherman fall down on rocks or into the water far more often than they let on. Sheath-knives poke into waders and become more of an annoyance than an aid.

I use a knife to cut briars out of my way or to cut a new leader in the middle of the stream. I prefer to carry a small neck knife, because I don't like to have to search for it, and I can't predict what I'll be standing in when I need a knife. I will also use a folding knife if it clips comfortably onto the inside of my front pocket. It'll be there where I can get it and it doesn't make walking more difficult.

When you're trying to weave a rod and line through brush to get to an ideal casting point, the last thing you want is another thing - like a sheath knife - to hang up on something. Some people think it is gauche to curse at the top of your lungs in the great outdoors, and it sure scares fish.

I can't speak much to the "bird" half of the name, but a bird hunter can.

I like your design. That small gut-hook would be useful to me. I don't see any point in the fillet-style blade in the classic examples. Most of the time, you will only find trout that are big enough to fillet in magazines, or when trolling from a boat where you don't need a knife. When I keep stream-caught trout I gut and roast them.

Ray Rogers' answer is right on. Learn how to make the classic bird and trout knife and then learn to design an even better one. I like your plan to design from inspiration more than the idea of duplicating what's been done. Get input from fishermen and bird hunters and you should do well.

Sam

[clw3]

Thanks Sam!
That's the kind of feedback I crave. I will try to keep those things in mind for future designs.
-C Wommack

[Sam Wereb]

Word.

[TexasJack]

"Utility" kinda implies that it's a knife for cutting open boxes. Looks to me like the shape you are going for is more of a hunter or maybe a skinner.

[clw3]

Yea, I know, but I didn't think it had enough oomph to handle the kind of workout a hunter would see. It's a little dainty I think. Maybe I could work on the scale a bit. I dunno, maybe it would be good for small game. I'll keep pluggin'.
I just thought it was a simple design that a first time maker could reasonably put together in a 4 day class and still come out with a usable knife. One thing I don't want to do is build knives that get put away. I could just keep the materials on the shelf for that matter, and produce the same effect without all the labor. Knowwhatimean?
It ought to have purpose. I see many excellent newbie knives on the threads and also many valiant efforts. It seems to me that the more successful designs are the ones that fulfill a purpose, and the ones created from economy of means (using whatever is laying around the shop) are more like interesting conversation pieces.
As a graphic artist, my first job is to communicate visually the client's message and my second job is to make it look good. I hope to apply the same practices to my knife designs, though I'm sure I have a few conversations pieces in my near future.
Thanks for the input and the opportunity to share!
-C Wommack

[hammerdownnow]

One idea always leads to another. Talking and hearing ideas always gives you more ideas.

Here is a pic of a folding guthook. Guthooks for birds are different than for splitting open the belly on a deer. The "Hook" is slid into the vent of the bird and twisted. Then it is pulled out, removing the intestines without cutting open the bird. Trout on the other hand taste better when immediatly slit open, guts removed and the backbone scraped of the blood held under a thin membrane there. This is why many trout knives have spoons attached to their handles.


My idea for a scagel style bird and trout would be like the one below. The wharnie or boat blade would be replaced by a bird guthook. Most flyfishermen and bird hunters are very traditional about their accoutrements. Target your market.

(Click4pic)

[hammerdownnow]

I like the addition of the bottle opener on the gut hook. Just the thing for bustin a cap on some coolies chillin in the spring creek!