Removing scale/reducing grain size

[cactusforge]

I have heard about quenching a blade while forging several times
The purpose is to get rid of scale and shrink the grain size.
Do any of the blade smiths that are on this forum do this or have tried it and dose it work. I have used it on Swords with good results, no scale and a fine grain but always wondered if I was improving the forging. Gib

[Fox Creek]

I think it helps Gib. 'makes sense to me. I quench blades while I am working on them from a near black heat. I feel like multiple near-hardening quenches during forging helps control graingrowth. But mainly, I find the oil forms a soft black psuedo-scale that is a lot easier to get off. I cant help but believe a carbon rich surface deposit, such as burnt oil, shields the surface some from scaling and decarburization.

[Larry Harley]

some steel can take it
some will end up as pieceses of parts
harley

[Raymond Richard]

Gib, the only time I would do any quenching while I was forging is if I didn't want the tip of the knife to over heat and then it wasn't a full quench. Just enough so when I put it back into the forge the rest of the blade that I was working on would heat up and the tip would stay cooler. Never really gave it much though other than that. My main forge now I don't do that cause I'll run the tip out the back door so it stays cooler. I sure like forging wet though....

Larry's right. As a general rule you should never quench a piece of high carbon steel until you are ready to harden it. Multiple quenching can tear the steel apart through thermal shock. If you quench from a red heat it is a very risky practice. It is not as risky from a black heat, but depending on the type of steel, it may still fracture it. Just before I get ready to do finishing heats, I stone or pickle the blade clean. Then I continue the hammer finishing in a reducing atmosphere to prevent further scaling.

[Dana Acker]

Wet forging is safer. Wire brushing the daylights out of the hot blade before hammering works too (and keeping the scale off the anvil). Watching it in the forge and not letting it get too hot is also good for keeping scale off.

Normalizing several times after forging helps refine the grain, and not letting it get too hot in the first place keeps grain size down. Too much heat for too long causes grain growth.