Cutting heavy metal

[Defender]

Hi All,
I am a newbie here but a longstanding member at one of the other forums and I have a silly question to ask. I am thinking seriously of trying my hand at some real knifemaking- I have done a few kits in the past- and I was thinking of starting with a slab of damascus but I am wondering, once I have the outline I want on the steel, what the heck can I cut it with? I am assuming that it might take a little while with a hacksaw so maybe I could get a little help?:confused:
I appreciate it immensely.
Def

[Bob Warner]

Welcome. You have now found the best forum for your goal.

The answer to your questions depends on what tools you have available. If you had a forge, you could forge the knife to shape. In my opinion, damascus looks best when forged to shape.

If you have a drill or drill press, you can drill holes just outside the lines and then cut with a hacksaw.

If you have a steady hand and an angle grinder, You can profile it with a cutting disc and then grind to shape with a grinding stone.

If all else fails just grind down to the lines with a bench grinder, angle grinder or belt grinder.

[Ray Rogers]

If you have never made a blade before making the first one out of damascus could be a very expensive way to discover that you haven't developed the skills necessary to make a blade. In other words, damascus can make a very pretty pile of scrap.

Get some 1095 or 1084 or O1 and make a few cheap blades before risking the big bucks on damascus....

[Defender]

Probably a good idea. I thought about starting with cheaper (less expensive) steel but a friend of mine is dead set on Damascus and since it will be a joint product it looks like that's what I will be using.
Funny thing is he really has no idea what he is looking for. He read an article a while back on the rediscovery of Wootz Damascus and so everything now has to be damascus, even if it is "only" pattern weld.
Normally he isn't such an idiot about these things but in this case....
Thanks for your suggestions though.
Def

[PeterAtwood]

Even better, profile one out of wood first and get your pattern like you want it. I get giant paint stirring sticks for 5 gallon buckets from the local paint store and make quicky templates with them when I want to try a new shape.

[Defender]

Thanks Peter. I was kind of thinking of something like that. My buddy is interested in making a kuhkri based on the ones from Cold Steel but he wants it out of Damascus. We are going to order a sheet of it from knifekits.com because the 15"x5"x.1" seems like a decent size for it. All I am going to have to do is try to rough it out, grind it and slap on a handle. I am HOPING it won't be too difficult but I certainly understand that is famous last words!
Def

[Ray Rogers]

Def,

Most of the 'old pros' would recommend that you also heat treat and etch your damascus.

BTW, .10 thickness is barely over 3/32nds thick material. That's very, very thin for a kukri. Make sure your friend understands that before you plunk down $150 for that sheet of material....

[mikec]

Although I am not a maker as of yet I've been doing a lot of studing on older and interesting pattern/shapped knives.

I'm not trying to discurage you from trying but I assume you have read some on heat treating and differential heat treating. I have to warn you to get the full effect of a kukri, it has to be diff-heat treated to the max. the inside curve of the blade gets one hardness, the large belly or out side curve gets another hardness and the spine gets yet another. This is done through years of practice by selectivly pouring the oil directly on the blade at just the right time. And honestly, I don't know a lot about damascus, but I don't no that it can take that kind of selective harding...Someone can correct me on this if they wish, I don't know.

If it is not treated properly, the first time you chop a good chunk of wood, it will eather brake or warp at the inside curve.

BTW, sorry for the spelling, in a hurry

[Defender]

Likely it won't see alot of heavy use and like I said earlier, my buddy seems to have his heart set on doing it this way. Worst thing it is likely to encounter is his roommate's aircraft aluminum Klingon Sword!
As for the heat treat, how do you recommend I go about doing that, or who should I send it to for that? I know I need a pro to do it but what do I ask for when I find one? I had actually assumed that the metal would be treated when I got it....
Def

[mikec]

First off, most steels that you purchase come in the annealed or softened state to allow for grinding, again I might be wrong here and damascus come hardened, anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

Second, most likely you will be getting a Carbon-Steel based damascus. The type of hardening required for this type of steel (and sorry I should know what that is called) most people or companies don't offer this as a service, only stainless steels or "air-hardening" is offered. That's not to say that someone wouldn't volunteer to do it for you. And, I guess that doing a standard knife hardening as opposed to a traditional kukri hardening would at least protect it some.

Good luck on your attempt and please post a picture when you're finished.

[Ray Rogers]

OK, to be clear about it, damascus is sold in the annealed state so it must be heat treated. The steel you are buying is carbon damascus and will require an oil quench which is something the big services don't generally like to do. Your blade will be very large and VERY thin so it it pretty much guaranteed to warp at least a little, especially since mmost warpage is caused by uneven grinding and you have never ground a blade so it's likely to be uneven. Bottom line: the heat treat should be done by someone who has a lot of practice with carbon steel.

It's a pretty well accepted axiom around here that if you make one knife you will probably make more. Therefore, you are likely to make more knives after you make this damascus beast. Why not make the second knife first? Get some O1 carbon steel in 3/32nds thickness and make a kukri and learn to heat treat it yourself. You could probably make 5 of them for the cost of that damascus. Once you can make a kukri this way, you'll be able to make the damascus knife and heat treat it yourself. The heat treat process will be the same for both steels. Then, if his room mate is silly enough to attack him with that Klingon sword the kukri can just cut it in half...

[Bob Warner]

You could also get a custom knifemaker to make you a forged to shape damascus blank and you can just do the grinding to get it to final finish. Then return it to the knifemaker for heat treat.

This way you can get a thicker blade, the benefit of a forged blade (damascus looks a lot better if forged to shape) and first class heat treatment.

[Geno]

Hey Bob, that's a good idea!
I know a guy who does that kind of stuff.

Def, you are right in the middle of the people who can help.
I agree with Bob, Hand forged is hard to beat!

Beauty, function, and symetry all in one package.

(and not as hard to get as some might think)
Be blessed!

[Defender]

"Def, you are right in the middle of the people who can help."

Thanks Geno, that's why I am here. I have been frequenting the other knife forums for years and just recently found this one. I think I like it here!

I am fully intending to start building knives, even if I never get very good at it it sounds like a hell of alot of fun. I already have a few projects on the go but I have to keep most of it pretty small scale as I am living in an apartment but I certainly don't expect my first knife to be my last.

I have been greatly enjoying all the help folks have been offering- and am certain it will help me NOT ruin a perfectly good hunk of steel, although one of the good things about starting with a large blade is that later when I know what I am doing I can cut it down into something good!
Def